The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

I call the National Assembly to order.

1. 1. Questions to the First Minister

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from John Griffiths.

<p>Economic Development in South-east Wales</p>

John Griffiths AC: 1. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's policy on economic development in south-east Wales? OAQ(5)0493(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We plan to continue to support businesses in their growth, to invest in high-quality infrastructure and to improve economic development conditions.

John Griffiths AC: First Minister, Newport has great economic potential, with its transport, geographical and industrial strengths. On the M4, main rail lines and coast, part of the capital city region, neighbouring Bristol, it is the hub of its wider regional economy. So, First Minister, will you agree with me that driving economic development in Newport will be a major factor in Wales achieving its great economic potential?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, I do. We want to see Newport, like all parts of Wales, developed to its full potential. A lot of work is already under way, which will bring benefit to Newport, including the ongoing regeneration activity, the establishment of Innovation Point, and the proposals being taken forward with regard to the M4.

Steffan Lewis AC: A report by the What Works Centre for Wellbeing published recently, identified four south-east local authorities as ranking among the highest for well-being inequality. These included Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly and Merthyr Tydfil. The report makes clear that there are a number of contributory factors, of course, and a number of possible solutions, but we shouldn’t dismiss the indicators that were used, which included how worth while people feel about their day-to-day lives. Economic development is going to be central to addressing those very deep feelings in those communities. Will the First Minister commit to rejecting now a trickle-down approach to economic development, and instead put on record his commitment to a place-based approach so that any future economic plans he reveals for this country are centred on what really matters, which is people and their communities?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. It’s certainly not the case that we accept trickle-down economics, far from it. We want to make sure that communities are connected—and that’s what the south Wales metro, for example, is about—and connected digitally as well, which is why we have Superfast Cymru, and to ensure that people have the skills that they need in order to improve their incomes and to get jobs in the future, and that is something as a Government that we’re very much focused on.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: First Minister, research by Lloyds Bank shows that the number of new businesses starting up in Wales has dropped by more than a quarter over the last five years. The number of business start-ups fell by more than 27 per cent in Caerphilly, more than 23 per cent in Monmouth, and less than 9 per cent in Newport, and 8 per cent in Blaenau Gwent. That doesn’t show a good picture of start-up businesses in south-east Wales. What measures and incentives does the Welsh Government intend to introduce to create the economic conditions to encourage new businesses to start up in south-east Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: We have a record number of start-ups. We’re seeing more and more young people particularly getting involved in businesses and becoming very successful in business. It’s right to say that Brexit introduces an element of uncertainty, and these are uncertain times indeed for businesses. But, as a Government, we will continue, of course, to support start-ups and ensure that many of those businesses become SMEs and even larger in the future.

<p>Cardiff Airport</p>

David J Rowlands AC: 2. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government's plans to improve access to Cardiff airport? OAQ(5)0494(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We are continuing with the development of proposals to improve access to the airport by public transport and by car, supporting, amongst other things, of course, the current bus and rail arrangements.

David J Rowlands AC: I thank the First Minister for his answer. I think all in the Chamber welcome the huge improvement in the airport’s performance since the Government’s intervention. But does the First Minister not agree that a rail link will greatly enhance its appeal to the international traveller and give it a competitive edge over other local airports? So, can he tell us why this has not been included in the metro project?

Carwyn Jones AC: Can I welcome what the Member has said about the airport, and in particular his comments about the progress the airport has made since the Welsh Government took it over? They’re not comments that are echoed on that side of the Chamber, who would happily have seen it overgrown by now if it had been left in their hands. He does ask an important question though. Can I say to him that the focus at the moment is on the bus service, on looking at improving the frequency on the current railway line, and then, beyond that, looking to see either whether we should consider a rail spur—there are issues with that; there will be opposition, that’s true—or whether, in fact, at some point in the future, the terminal itself would move closer to the existing railway line? So, at the moment, it’s a question of improving what is already there, and looking, in the future, to see whether there is a way of locating the terminal closer to the rail link.

Adam Price AC: The agreement announced yesterday between the Welsh Government and Heathrow Airport is welcome. But, in stark contrast to that published in relation to Scotland, there are no concrete targets in the agreement, nothing on the amount of construction-related spend, nothing about the overall jobs target, nothing about landing charges or a development fund for flights. Is that because, essentially, the First Minister negotiated any leverage he had away by announcing his support for Heathrow, without actually getting these concessions, in contrast to what the Scottish Government did?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, the question is about access to Cardiff Airport, but I’m more than happy to answer the question about Heathrow. I’m surprised he doesn’t welcome the announcement yesterday—the fact that 8,000 jobs will be secured, all that investment, the fact that we worked with Heathrow to—[Interruption.] High-pitched screaming won’t help him. The fact that we have secured commitment to manufacturing hubs outside Wales. We have an event on 5 July to ensure that Welsh businesses—[Interruption.] Well, he’s still high-pitch screaming. Welsh businesses will be able to take full advantage—[Interruption.] He still hasn’t learned his lesson. Welsh businesses will be able to—

I think the Member is maybe screaming because the Member did welcome the statement yesterday. Carry on.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I’m sure the Member can speak for himself, Llywydd, actually, on that basis.The issue is this: we will be creating thousands of jobs. We will be ensuring that there will be hubs for manufacturing outside Wales. We will be ensuring that there will be routes that are being looked at to Welsh airports, not just Cardiff—not just Cardiff. And what was announced yesterday is far more substantial than what Scotland has achieved.

Russell George AC: Well, I’m going to give another welcome this afternoon. I’m going to welcome the growth in passenger numbers on the T9 bus service. I think that is fantastic news to welcome. Now, given the fact that this service is such a success and is now proving to be sustainable in the long term, will you commit to scrapping the £0.5 million Welsh Government subsidy for this service and instead offer subsidies to other bus services that have been axed by cuts to the bus operators grant?

Carwyn Jones AC: What he seems to be suggesting is we shouldn’t have a bus service to the airport. I can’t agree with that position. It comes back to the position his party took—they didn’t want the airport to succeed. At the end of the day, the Welsh Conservatives didn’t want the airport to grow, they were happy to see the airport decline, they would have sat on their backsides and seen the airport close down. [Interruption.] They’re still not happy at the fact that the airport is doing well in reality. They don’t want to see a bus service to the airport, and we want to make sure there are public transport links to our airport in Cardiff, and they will continue. Having public transport links, surely, to any airport, whether they are bus or rail, are hugely important to the future development of any airport.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Well, I welcome the partnership agreement between Welsh Government and Heathrow in respect of airlines wanting to fly out of Wales’s Cardiff Airport to Heathrow, and the potential of thousands of new skilled jobs it could create, alongside boosting the Welsh economy. However, for my constituents and people and businesses across north-east Wales, it’s increased and better connections with airports such as Liverpool and Manchester that make a direct difference to them. So, First Minister, can I urge that enhanced connectivity and greater efficiency of train links to the neighbouring north-western airports form a key part of the north-east Wales metro plans and are considered as part of the Wales and borders franchise?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. I can say that, with the support of the Welsh Government, Arriva Trains Wales secured additional paths from the north of Wales to Manchester Airport. Those additional services started operating in May of last year, and we are working, of course, with Merseytravel to develop opportunities for delivering new services to Liverpool and to John Lennon airport in the next franchise, on the reopened Halton curve.

Neil McEvoy AC: First Minister, I put in a freedom of information request to Cardiff Airport, owned by the Welsh public. I wanted to know how much money had been spent on lobbying firms, what companies had been employed, and whether or not there had been a tender process gone through by those lobbying companies. Now, this is owned by the Welsh public, so the public have a right to know these things. The airport have refused to answer. What do you make of this?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I mean, there are ways of appealing, if he feels that his request hasn’t been dealt with.

<p>Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders</p>

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Diolch, Lywydd. Whilst the First Minister was away last week, he may have seen that the Cabinet Secretary for finance wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer about proposed public spending cuts in two or three years’ time, which set to amount to £3.5 billion. The Government, this year, is running a budget deficit equivalent to £60 billion. George Osborne managed the singular achievement of borrowing twice as much money in six years as Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling. The national debt is now £1,800 billion, compared with £1,200 billion six years ago. That’s £28,000 for every person in Wales—indeed, the United Kingdom. It’s very easy to spend money we haven’t got, of course, and everybody would like to be able to borrow interminably and never to have to pay it back. By how much does he think the Government’s borrowing requirement should increase on a permanent basis?

Carwyn Jones AC: That is a very strong case indeed for borrowing now to invest for the future. It’s never been cheaper to borrow money on the world markets. We know from the experience after the end of the second world war, when the UK was in a far worse position than it is now financially, that the Government of the day took the position that it would seek to borrow money in order to invest for the future. Then, we saw, of course, the economic growth of the 1950s and the 1960s. So, I am unashamedly Keynesian in this regard. I take the view that Government should be borrowing now in order to invest, in order to create the income that will pay back the cost of that borrowing and more in the future.

Neil Hamilton AC: But the First Minister knows that never happens. He has only to look at the recent history of the UK Government’s debt position to see what the reality is. We have a well-being of future generations Act in Wales—a very good thing it is too—but what we’re doing by carrying on with this ‘rake’s progress’ of borrowing, of course, is to hand on to the next generation a massive debt, which they will have to repay. I don’t think that’s a terribly moral position for us to hold. But, there’s a better solution to this. We don’t have to borrow that money at all. We can look at what the Government spends money on at the moment and cut without any risk to anybody in Britain being disadvantaged. Let’s just take the foreign aid budget, for example, on which we’re spending £12 billion this year. If we just knocked £3.5 billion off that £12 billion, that would amount to the same sort of saving that the Cabinet Secretary for finance wants the Chancellor of the Exchequer to avoid deducting from the Welsh Government’s budget. There are plenty of reasons why we should cut the foreign aid budget. So, is the First Minister putting the interests of people in foreign countries before the interests of the people of Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: I think the leader of UKIP is being naive in what he says. First of all, there is the obvious moral question of those countries that are rich helping those countries that are poor. The example of Norway is a prime example of that. The Norway Grants were set up by the Norwegian Government because they felt they’d done very well out of oil and gas and wanted to give something back to people who had less. So, that altruism and that desire to help humanity is hugely strong. But also, if we look at it economically, aid buys friends and allies. If you don’t provide aid to countries in order to help them and they will remain your friend in the future, someone else will do it. So, yes, it’s right to say that there is a strong moral case for aid, but, in diplomatic terms, it’s also correct to say that, if you offer aid to countries that grow in the future, they will remain your friends and will trade with you in the future, increasing the wealth of their own people and of course buying the goods that you manufacture.

Neil Hamilton AC: Of course there is a humanitarian case for aid and nobody is against that, but a lot of our aid budget actually goes to countries that are spending a huge amount of money upon projects that we wouldn’t regard for a moment as humanitarian. For example, we’re increasing our aid to Pakistan this year by £100 million to nearly £450 million a year. Pakistan, this year, is increasing its defence budget by £635 million to £6.7 billion. They spend far more per capita on defence than we do in the United Kingdom. They’ve also got a nuclear programme and a space programme. So, what we’re in effect doing by increasing the amount of aid that we’re giving to Pakistan is indirectly funding their military, space and nuclear budgets.

Carwyn Jones AC: He uses one example. There are many, many other examples of countries where people have suffered greatly, a lot of it due to the ineptitude of European powers who left those countries with artificial boundaries and with economic incoherence, and who left those countries without a tradition of governance. They were left to struggle as a result of it. Many of those countries now have good governance. If we look at Ghana, for example, Ghana is a country where governance is robust, yet many of the people there are paying for the mistakes that were made in the 1960s after independence. I see nothing wrong in providing aid to people in order to enable them to survive, of course, but also in order to enable people to develop themselves economically and, of course, to enable those people then to provide for their families.I was in Uganda two years ago. The one thing that struck me about Uganda was the sheer entrepreneurial spirit of the people. What they didn’t have was capital. Coffee was the main cash crop. They saved money from coffee in order to provide themselves with capital—they had no other way of doing it. The great thing that happened in Uganda was banking via mobile phones—people could transfer money around in a way that they couldn’t before.For many, many people around the world, they just need a bit of help in order to prosper, and that’s why we give aid to people—in order to make sure that they can prosper in the future and that their communities can prosper in the future.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: Diolch, Lywydd. First Minister, on 16 January, you introduced the Trade Union (Wales) Bill. The intention of that Bill is to disapply aspects of the UK Government’s Trade Union Act 2016. Plaid Cymru supports this—we believe that industrial relations should be decided upon here and not in Westminster. Your trade union Bill will be in competence under the Assembly’s current powers. Do you believe that it will be in competence under the reserved-powers model that we are moving to under the new Wales Act?

Carwyn Jones AC: The competence will change, but our belief is this: we will pass this legislation and we will do what is right by the people of Wales. It is a matter then for the UK Parliament to decide whether it wishes to override an Act that was passed by the people of Wales in their Parliament. If they choose to do that, they will precipitate a constitutional crisis.

Leanne Wood AC: The Wales Act implements a heavy list of restrictions, and industrial relations is one of those restrictions. We heard from the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee yesterday that the UK Government intends to legislate on industrial relations once the Wales Act 2017 is in force—they use the words ‘at the earliest opportunity’.If you want to reduce strike action, the best way isn’t through legal restrictions but through negotiation, dialogue and a social partnership approach that is advocated by a majority of people in this Assembly. You’ve said that you still intend to take the trade union Bill through this Assembly. What is your plan to ensure that its provisions are not overruled by the UK Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: We will do everything that we can to make sure that that doesn’t happen. We will take this legislation through the Assembly, and we believe it will pass with the support of not just the governing party, of course, but that of her own party as well, we trust. It is a matter then for the UK Parliament, and the House of Lords particularly, to decide whether it is constitutionally appropriate to seek to overturn legislation made in a devolved parliament by the elected Members of that devolved parliament acting within competence. That is a serious constitutional matter that the UK Parliament will embroil itself in if it goes down that line.

Leanne Wood AC: Thank you. I wonder if we’ll now see another Supreme Court case, and I’m sure that you’d agree that that would be a damning verdict on the Wales Act. Plaid Cymru voted against the legislative competence motion on the Wales Act because we were of the view that it could lead to a Westminster power grab. Would you agree that this now looks like a vindication of our position on that vote?There is agreement across most of this Chamber that the Wales Act is not going to provide a lasting settlement, as the UK Government stated its objective was to achieve. Will you state today whether you believe that the Wales Act 2017 is unworkable? If you do think it’s unworkable, do you support Plaid Cymru’s call for a new Wales Bill immediately?

Carwyn Jones AC: It’s not unworkable, but it is unsatisfactory. She and I are in exactly the same position on this. The current legislation was part of a package—there were parts of it we did not like and did not accept, but, nevertheless, it took this Assembly forward when it was viewed as a package. Does it mean there’s unfinished business? Of course. The issue of the jurisdiction is still unfinished; the issue of policing is still unfinished; as is the issue of the fact that air passenger duty is devolved in Scotland but not in Wales for no sensible, logical or rational reason. Yes, undoubtedly, there will be another Wales Bill that will improve on the one that we’ve had recently.

Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. First Minister, today there’s this startling news that five people a week are dying in Wales—five people a day, sorry, dying in Wales—because of air pollution. This is a frightening figure that my colleague David Melding has raised many times in this Chamber, and the Welsh Conservatives led a debate on this in July. Many communities will rightly be looking to the Welsh Government to try to understand what measures the Government will be taking to improve air quality through the lifetime of this Assembly? I’d be grateful if you could give us some understanding of the action that the Welsh Government is taking to make sure that communities such as those in Caerphilly county borough that are cited in the ‘Week In Week Out’ programme today can take comfort and see real improvement.

Carwyn Jones AC: It is for local authorities to review local air quality. We do assist them in terms of doing that. We are considering responses to the recent consultation that was held on this subject. It did recognise the immediate and long-term health benefits to be gained by reducing pollution exposure across Wales. One area, of course, that has a beneficial effect on air quality is to encourage more people onto public transport, which is why of course we passed the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, in order for that to happen. We do need to see, of course, more investment in public transport in Wales. We’re doing our bit with the metro, and we do need to make sure now that we see electrification take place to Swansea, as was promised by the UK Government, in order to encourage more people onto the trains and out of cars. But the more we can reduce car use and provide an alternative to car use, the better it will be for air quality.

Andrew RT Davies AC: As I said, five people a week are dying because of air quality issues in Wales—that’s 2,000 people a year. That is a frightening figure, and as Public Health Wales have identified today, it is one of the biggest, if not the biggest issue that we do face. The programme ‘Week In Week Out’ today invited the Welsh Government to take part in that programme, and regrettably they chose not to and just issued a written statement. Can you understand why people are concerned that they’re not seeing real progress in their communities when they can’t see the lead coming from the Welsh Government to make these improvements? As I understand it, the figure of infringements is 18, and yet the community in Caerphilly county borough that is cited has had 57 different infringements of air quality in that particular area. They are still blighted day in, day out with the pollutants in the atmosphere of that particular area. We do need to get a sense of what we can calibrate at the end of this Assembly as looking like a success in this particular area. What would you deem as a successful outcome from the measures that you will be taking by 2021, First Minister?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, it would be a reduction in the amount of PM10s in the atmosphere, and potentially PM2.5s as well. If we look at reducing emissions—I mentioned the consultation earlier on and our response to that consultation is to be published shortly. What is our contribution? Looking at the south Wales metro, looking at the metro in the north-east of Wales to provide an alternative to car use—which means a reduction in the amount of exhaust fumes coming out of cars—to make sure people have that alternative, promoting the active travel Act so that more people are able to cycle as well—again, not using cars.The problem is, of course, that with the new changes to vehicle excise duties that are going to be coming in, if I remember rightly, after the first year of a car’s existence, every car, regardless of its emissions, will pay the same road tax. Now, we’ve had a system for years where those cars that pollute the most pay the most. Now we’re going to a system where it’s a flat fee. I think that’s wrong. I can understand the UK Government having to change the system, otherwise eventually hardly anyone will pay road tax—I understand that. But I think it’s wrong to move to a system where, effectively, if you have a car that has a huge amount of emissions, you pay the same as somebody whose car is very very light in terms of emissions. That won’t help air quality in Wales.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Would you agree, as First Minister, to convene a summit on this particular issue of all the interested public bodies, so that there can be a joined-up approach to it, on the basis that we do, generally, across parties want to see improvements? When you have a public health issue that is taking 2,000 lives a year within Wales—let alone other parts of the United Kingdom—that, I would suggest, is rated as pressing the number one button in your list of priorities. There does seem to be an element of divergence when it’s delivered within communities the length of breadth of Wales, and it does need some centralising and co-ordination here. Will you agree to host a summit, to make sure that progress can be made on this agenda item, so that we can see genuine improvements across Wales, but importantly, improvements to make sure that we do not continue to see the number of people dying through poor air quality going up in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: One of the issues that’s increasingly a problem as well, of course, is cars idling in traffic jams—leaving their engines on—and that does create particular areas of particularly low air quality. There are several ways of dealing with that. One is making sure that the blockages are removed. It also means, of course, that we look at ways of promoting more hybrids and electric cars in the future, and there are a number of ways in which that can be done. As part of the response to the consultation that’s taken place, we will look to be as inclusive as possible in our approach. We have to do that, of course, working with local government as well, as the main monitors of local air quality, in order to make sure that we continue to improve the air that the people of Wales breathe.

<p>Employment for People with Long-term, Fluctuating Health Conditions</p>

Mark Isherwood AC: 3. How is the Welsh Government helping to reduce the barriers to employment for people with long-term, fluctuating health conditions? OAQ(5)0481(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We are taking a preventative approach to removing health barriers to work through the Healthy Working Wales programme and our new all-age employability plan will strengthen our approach to supporting low-activity groups, including support for those with longer-term health condition, to access employment opportunities.

Mark Isherwood AC: After Action for ME delivered an employment support programme for people with ME with the North Bristol NHS Trust, 72 per cent of clients achieved their employment goals. How will you ensure, therefore, that the Welsh Government, looking at the good practice very nearby across the border, will address the barriers faced by people with long-term, fluctuating conditions such as myalgic encephalomyelitis and ensure that these are produced co-productively in accordance with the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 requirements?

Carwyn Jones AC: I’ve already mentioned, of course, the employability plan. I can say that, in terms of Healthy Working Wales, over 3,000 organisations employing around 460,000 people have engaged with Healthy Working Wales. It represents about 33 per cent of the working population with an investment of over £800,000 per year in the programme. We’re also supporting workplaces to tackle the stigma and discrimination associated with mental health problems through the Time to Change Wales organisational pledge.

Gareth Bennett AC: I welcome your reference to mental health issues, which was what I was going to raise. One effective measure in treating mental health problems is talking therapy, which can reduce the need to prescribe medication, which would itself enhance the ability of people to enter the job market. What is the Welsh Government doing to assist with the provision of talking therapy in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: We do recognise, as far as mental health is concerned, that it can’t all be pharmaceutical intervention. Counselling is important, as is, of course, exercise. Exercise is available in most of Wales, I think, in terms of it being prescribed to people. Our delivery plan, ‘Together for Mental Health’, is there, of course, to help people in Wales become more resilient and to be able to tackle poor mental well-being when it occurs. As part of that plan we look at different therapies that will help people in different and more effective ways.

<p>Digital Communications Infrastructure</p>

Jeremy Miles AC: 4. Will the First Minister make a statement on digital communications infrastructure in Wales? OAQ(5)0488(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Through the Superfast Cymru project and ongoing, regular discussions with mobile network operators, Ofcom and the UK Government, we have facilitated access to fast fibre broadband to over 630,000 Welsh premises and secured confirmation of a 90 per cent mobile geographic coverage in Wales by the end of this year.

Jeremy Miles AC: Can I congratulate the Welsh Government on progress in rolling out superfast broadband? As we move to address the final gaps in that and to improve on mobile connectivity, it’s clear that the topography of Wales, beautiful as it is, poses particular challenges to digital connectivity and that we may need greater proportionate access to infrastructure than other parts of the UK to reach the same level of coverage finally. I look forward to the Welsh Government’s mobile plan and I hope it contains steps to press operators to share infrastructure. But, in addition, will the First Minister confirm that the Welsh Government will look at how publicly owned land can be used, where appropriate, to locate digital infrastructure—and as we look post Brexit at how we use public funds to support land management, that we consider how future programmes can be used to incentivise the location of digital infrastructure in rural and semi-rural areas where they can make a difference to connectivity Wales-wide?

Carwyn Jones AC: We will look carefully at regional economic funding in the context of the forthcoming mobile action plan, and during the next phase of superfast broadband development, to see how best this could support the targeted delivery of communications infrastructure on a more regional or local basis. There are some parts of Wales where there is no coverage. We know there are some parts of Wales—the Isle of Anglesey is one example, raised often in the Chamber by the Member for Ynys Môn—where there appears to be coverage, yet it’s not powerful enough to deliver data coverage. So, there are issues that will need to be resolved for the future and using regional economic funding is one way in which that might be done.

Dai Lloyd AC: First Minister, I have received complaints from representatives of the business community on the quality of Wi-Fi services on trains running between Swansea and Paddington. This is often because of poor signal on the route. As this is a crucially important service for us here in Wales, what is your Government doing in collaboration with the Westminster Government and the private companies running the network to improve the signal along this route and also other routes across Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: This is all important. As one who has used that service many times, I have to say that the majority of the time. Of course, it’s one thing to have the service on the train, but it’s something else for the service to work effectively. We are in touch with First Great Western, of course, in order to ensure that the service will ultimately improve. I know it’s possible—I’ve seen it on other trains where the system works well—and we wish to ensure, of course, by considering the franchise next year, that this is something that will be quite normal in every train in Wales.

Nick Ramsay AC: First Minister, you mentioned fast fibre in your answer to Jeremy Miles’s initial question about broadband services, and I’ll start with some good news that the village of Tintern on the River Wye in my constituency has been very luckily recently connected to a superfast broadband box, which is pleasing the village no end. On the flip side, in the rural hinterland of Trelleck Grange, a village just outside, they haven’t benefited from that box, and BT seem to be under the impression that the whole area is now being served by superfast broadband and that the problem has been dealt with. Can you liaise with BT to make sure that when a village in a rural area is connected, that a neighbouring area that isn’t so lucky is not then considered to have been dealt with in the same way, because those people then don’t have much hope for any end date to their broadband problems?

Carwyn Jones AC: I will investigate the issue for the Member and will write to the Member with a response.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I think mine is a straightforward question and may have a straightforward answer. It’s fantastic work being done by Superfast Business Wales in their roadshows and their workshops right across the country, and as I look through a tremendous list of places they’re going to, it’s quite impressive how they’re raising the potential on how to get those connections up. But the one place that’s missing in all this—north, south, east and west—is one of the heartlands of great industry in south Wales, and it’s Bridgend. So, could I suggest that through his good offices and mine, we might persuade them to bring one of the roadshows to Bridgend, possibly north of the M4 in the Ogmore patch? [Laughter.]

Carwyn Jones AC: Standing here, I can’t comment on behalf of the Assembly Member for Bridgend, but I’m sure that the Member’s words will find resonance with that Member.

<p>General Practitioner Recruitment</p>

Angela Burns AC: 5. What plans does the First Minister have to address the barriers that are facing GP recruitment in Wales? OAQ(5)0484(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: We will continue to work with our partners, including General Practitioners Committee Wales, to address the challenges faced by the GP workforce in Wales. That work will be supported by an additional investment of £27 million for general medical services during 2017-18, as was announced at the weekend.

Angela Burns AC: Thank you for that. I’ve met with a great many of the organisations that represent all facets of the GP work sphere and, of course, the issue of professional indemnity is one of the major points that comes across as a barrier for getting more GPs who currently are either thinking of retiring and work part-time to release more of their GP hours and go into GP practices, which would indeed help with all of the queues and problems that we see in GP practices. I am aware that some of that £27 million is earmarked to help to offset some of that indemnity, but what I really wanted to know was that I understood that the Cabinet Secretary had commissioned a report by Welsh Government lawyers into this issue, and I was wondering if the First Minister could tell me if this report has been completed, and if so, could you share with us the advice that it gave the Cabinet Secretary?

Carwyn Jones AC: This is something that is under active discussion with the profession in order to move that forward. I can say that the package that was announced on the weekend is designed, amongst other things, to increase the contribution, as the Member says, towards the rising costs of professional indemnity, as well as, of course, dealing with things such as the increased costs of pensions administration, and a general uplift to deal with increasing practice costs.

Adam Price AC: One of the frustrations is that qualified students from Wales who want to be trained in Wales in our medical schools don’t have the opportunity to undertake that training. When we look at the percentages in England, 80 per cent of the students in medical schools are from England, 50 per cent in Scotland, for example, but only 20 per cent in Wales. Could we guarantee that all Welsh domiciled students who have the ability to study can access a training place here in Wales? Of course, that has a great impact, then, on the ability to retain them here within our health service?

Carwyn Jones AC: I must say—and I’m sure that he’s heard the same thing—that people have told me that they’ve seen examples of young people who have not received an offer to study in Cardiff, but have received an offer to study in England. Now, this is something that concerns me, because if they’re good enough to go to England, then they should be good enough to attend a Welsh university. What I will do—this was being considered recently—is write to the Member on this subject. I’ve heard people telling me this, and I’m sure he heard the same. It is all important that we understand the selection system for students in order to ensure that Welsh students receive fair play.

Vikki Howells AC: First Minister, there is a strong evidence base suggesting that medical students are more likely to want to practise in the long term where they have trained. Therefore, I welcome Cwm Taf health board’s initiative, whereby in partnership with Cardiff University School of Medicine, 60 medical students each year have experienced the early part of their training in GP surgeries in the south Wales Valleys. First Minister, do you agree that giving medical students this exposure to general practice early on is crucial to promoting it as a career choice, and how else can we promote the Valleys as a good place for GPs to work?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, this is something, of course, that’s hugely important, as the Member says. If we look, for example, at the Rhondda cluster in Cwm Taf, that’s been particularly active in terms of recruiting. It’s hugely important, of course, that a student goes somewhere and has a positive experience. That’s why it’s hugely important that we’re able to do that. If we look at the Rhondda cluster as an example: they have a cluster communications officer to build the reputation of the Rhondda as a great place to work, they’ve developed the Rhondda Docs website, which describes the lifestyle and career available in the Rhondda, and they’ve developed a recruitment and retention survey and analysis, which will form part of the cluster’s delivery plan in the new financial year. That’s one example that can be used or adapted by other clusters in order to make sure that when students actually do their GP training in Valleys areas, they feel they’re coming to a place that is forward-thinking, that is well resourced and has GPs who are dedicated to their community—and in all those respects, the cluster fulfils those obligations.

<p>Midwifery Practices</p>

Jayne Bryant AC: 6. Will the First Minister make a statement on midwifery practices in Wales? OAQ(5)0483(FM

Carwyn Jones AC: Midwives play a vital role in supporting women through their childbirth experience. Every woman has a named midwife to provide individualised care during pregnancy. The £95 million health education funding package recently announced includes a 40 per cent increase in midwifery training places, and that is the highest level of midwifery training places commissioned since devolution.

Jayne Bryant AC: Thank you, First Minister. The Royal College of Midwives report this year highlighted the growing age of the midwifery workforce and the need to ensure we replace those highly skilled and dedicated workers when they retire. As you said, the news of the 40 per cent increase in the number of university places for student midwives in the coming academic year and the continuing support for bursaries is very welcome. Commitments like this are essential to ensure that our maternity services attract more midwives over the coming years, so that they can deliver safe, high-quality care for women and babies. Will the Welsh Government pay tribute to the dedicated midwifery workforce that we have and will the Government work with health boards and trade unions to make sure that those approaching retirement can pass on their valuable skills and experience to the next generation of midwives?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, absolutely. It’s why, of course, we have increased the number of midwife training places. We know that it’s hugely important to invest in the workforce of the future by making that investment now, rather than wait to a time when we find that we have a demographic problem with the workforce. We’re making that investment now on the part of the people of Wales.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: I will also draw the First Minister’s attention to a letter that I received from the WI branch in Llangoed, in my constituency, which makes the case for investment in midwifery services. They are particularly concerned about the sustainability of the workforce. Yes, you say that there has been investment in more training places, but does the First Minister agree with me that unless we see a significant increase in the training places available in Wales, it will be impossible for us to provide for mothers and their families in the future with the kind of care that they need and deserve?

Carwyn Jones AC: That’s right, and that’s why we’ve invested to ensure that there are more places available. As I said, we’ve seen a 40 per cent increase in the number of training places available. And now, as I said earlier, we are at the highest level since 1999.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: First Minister, you will be aware of the massive campaign a couple of years ago to ensure that we had appropriate midwifery services and a consultant-led maternity ward at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. We previously welcomed the development proposals for the sub-regional neonatal intensive care centre, and it would be really appreciated if you could just update Members here today as to how well that is progressing and how that will lead to providing a first-class consultant-led midwifery service to us in north Wales.

Carwyn Jones AC: The Member is talking about the SuRNICC and the SuRNICC, of course, is a specialist unit. As Members will recall, the original proposal was to move those services to Arrowe Park Hospital. I took the view that we had to review that decision to see if it was possible and safe for that service to be delivered in Wales, and sure enough, the SuRNICC is the result of that. It’s progressing well in terms of recruitment and in terms of building and I look forward to the SuRNICC opening on the site of Glan Clwyd.

Caroline Jones AC: First Minister, during the previous Assembly, the Welsh Government increased the number of student midwifery places. However, in the latest ‘State of Midwifery Services Report’, the Royal College of Midwives states that it is no longer appropriate to maintain a steady number of training places, as the midwifery population is ageing. What plans does your Government have to increase the number of training places for student midwives in Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: As I said in my answer to the original question, the health education funding package that was announced recently does include a 40 per cent increase in midwifery training places.

<p>Animal Welfare</p>

Michelle Brown AC: 7. Will the First Minister make a statement on enforcement action made under the Animal Welfare (Breeding of Dogs) (Wales) Regulations 2014? OAQ(5)0487(FM)

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes. The enforcement of the regulations is the responsibility of the local authorities. However, officials are working with the heads of trading standards in Wales, via the partnership delivery programme, to capture data to assess the effectiveness of these regulations.

Michelle Brown AC: Okay, thank you for that answer, First Minister. Information received from anti-puppy farming campaigners says that local authorities do not have the resources to enforce the legislation. In its report, ‘Animal Welfare in England: Domestic Pets’, the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee recommended that the Government in the UK ban third-party sales of dogs and that dogs should only be available for licenced regulated breeders or approved rehoming organisations. This would go a long way to shutting down the puppy farming industry, which leads to the abuse and suffering of both dogs and owners. The UK Government has decided to ignore this recommendation. If the First Minister has the devolved powers to do so, does he intend to ban third-party dog sales in Wales? And if he doesn’t, how does the First Minister propose to take this issue further?

Carwyn Jones AC: I think we’ve got to separate the issue of puppy farming and the issue of legitimate third-party sales. I know that there are some who will say that there’s no difference, because I’ve heard it. I don’t accept that view; I think there are those who sell via a third-party route who are dedicated to their animals and who observe the highest standards possible, and there are those who don’t and they are the puppy farmers. But, of course, what is hugely important is that local authorities devote the resources they should to ensuring that the regulations are in force and that the law is observed. And, indeed, I know that there was a recent court case in Ceredigion where Ceredigion council did just that—they did enforce the law. They followed the judicial process that led to the breeder’s prosecution, and they have also ensured that suitable arrangements have been made in relation to dogs removed from the premises.So, local authorities are enforcing the law. It’s hugely important that those people who are the real rogues, if I can put it that way—the puppy farmers—are dealt with and the law provides the means to do that.

Bethan Sayed AC: On the wider issue of animal cruelty, obviously, it’s widely established that cruelty to animals is considered a gateway behaviour to violence against people. Many of those perpetrators, I’m sure, as with other things, would deny their responsibility in these acts of violence, but what are you doing to consider this as part of wider animal abuse legislation? And would you support the call that I and others in this Chamber have asked of your animal welfare Minister to have an animal abuse register for Wales, because if we can track these perpetrators who are taking part in this violence against animals at this early stage, if they then go on to perpetrate against people, then we can try and deflect from the seriousness of the potential things that they may do in these positions? So, I would urge you to consider this seriously and to carry out research in this area.

Carwyn Jones AC: Can I give that consideration on the Member’s behalf? It’s an idea that’s worth investigating. I don’t know what the practical issues would be but, certainly, I’d want to look at this further. I’ll write to the Member with the results of that consideration in terms of what standpoint the Government is taking on this.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, I appreciate that the Government gathers data at the moment that will steer any review into these regulations. Under these circumstances, can you give us an idea when this review will be held? And can you also publish a timetable on this issue?

Carwyn Jones AC: There’s no timetable in place at present, but of course this is something that the Minister will issue to the Assembly once it’s decided.

Thank you, First Minister.

2. Urgent Question: The Vauxhall Plant in Ellesmere Port

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

I have accepted an urgent question under Standing Order 12.66 and I call on Hannah Blythyn to ask the urgent question. Hannah Blythyn.

Hannah Blythyn AC: What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary held on the future of jobs for Welsh workers employed at the Vauxhall plant in Ellesmere Port, in the light of the General Motors announcement that they intend to sell Vauxhall to Peugeot? EAQ(5)0141(EI)

Ken Skates AC: I have today written to the Groupe PSA chair, Carlos Tavares, to highlight the importance of the Ellesmere Port site to north Wales, in particular, the quality of the skilled workforce who commute there on a daily basis, and the valued supply chain companies in the region. I’ve also requested an urgent meeting and, furthermore, I have spoken with Vauxhall officials today to discuss the opportunities for the Ellesmere Port site that workers and companies in Wales can take advantage of in the years to come.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Hundreds of my constituents across north-east Wales are directly employed at the Ellesmere Port plant and, as you indicated in your answers, there’s also the significance of the plant to the wider supply chain and the economy of our region. Cabinet Secretary, we know that the uncertainty caused by Brexit is negatively impacting on the automotive sector, and it’s the responsibility of all Governments to work with the sector and trade union representatives to secure jobs and industry investment into the future. We know that existing labour agreements indicate that jobs will be safe until 2020, but we need to ensure that Ellesmere Port gets those new products after 2020, and the UK Government could help with this through a more interventionist approach. In fact, we know that the UK Government is not averse to this, as we’ve seen them step in, post EU referendum, with Nissan. Does the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that this sort of action should apply across the UK automotive sector as a whole, and tomorrow’s budget offers a timely opportunity to act?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank the Member for her question, and say that we believe that something in the region of 450 people living in Wales are employed at the Ellesmere Port Vauxhall site? In addition, there’s approximately a dozen companies within Wales in the supply chain. There is no doubt that uncertainty over Brexit needs to be removed in order to help Ellesmere Port’s Vauxhall site, and indeed the Luton site, to maximise on the potential of its productive workforce. It’s my firm view that what is good for Nissan should also be good for Ford, and for Vauxhall, and for the entire automotive sector in the UK. I do believe that the business Secretary, Greg Clark, wants to do his very best for the automotive sector, but he also needs the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, and the whole of the UK Government, to be as committed to manufacturing in the UK as they are to the city of London. As I’ve said, I’ve spoken with Vauxhall, I’m seeking an urgent meeting with the Groupe PSA chair to discuss the opportunities that could come if the Vauxhall Astra’s lifespan is extended into the next decade or if new products are developed, in particular for the supply chain in Wales where we believe there is the potential to grow significantly the number of opportunities to supply Ellesmere Port and Luton.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: May I support the comments that have been made by the two previous speakers—the Cabinet Secretary and the Member for Delyn? Clearly, there’s a clear message that needs to be conveyed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a view to tomorrow’s budget. I would appreciate it if you could expand upon what exactly you would like to see in terms of support to ensure a more long-term future for Ellesmere Port. But you’ve also referenced the supply chain. Can I ask what the Welsh Government is doing to ensure that the supply chain is strengthened and is secured in the medium and long term? And may I ask, as reference has been made to the uncertainty emerging from Brexit in terms of the economy, whether you would support the Plaid Cymru demands to devolve some of the levers in terms of job creation, such as VAT and corporation tax, in order to ensure that we can be prepared to do more to protect many of the jobs such as those that we’re discussing today?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank the Member for his question, and say that he is absolutely right? There is a role for the UK Government—a very significant role for the UK Government—to play in securing the future, not just of the Ellesmere Port Vauxhall site, but the whole of the automotive sector in the UK. Tomorrow, the UK Government, and the Chancellor in particular, could make a very warm statement regarding the investment in research, development and innovation in the automotive sector. We know that the business Secretary has already announced that significant resource will be made available for the development of new electric-motor-driven cars, and I believe that this poses a great opportunity for the Welsh automotive sector and the automotive sector that feeds the Welsh supply chain. I also believe that additional resource could be offered to the Ellesmere Port Vauxhall site if it is in a position to be able to identify a new product, or develop jointly a product with other parts of the combined company. The Astra product at the moment only has approximately 24 per cent of local content. This presents a great opportunity as Vauxhall exits GM—and GM, in the past, have traditionally bought from within the EU. There’s an opportunity for a greater proportion of the supply chain to be captured by Welsh companies. For that reason, my officials were already in touch with Vauxhall prior to the announcement this week to discuss how companies in Wales can prepare themselves better to capture a greater degree of the supply chain work. This co-operation will continue with Vauxhall.There are also opportunities in terms of exports, in particular to China, with Vauxhall being severed from GM. It’s the hope that the combined company may be able to explore additional export opportunities in the far east, which could drive up volume and demand in the Ellesmere Port site. We are willing to look at any levers available at our disposal, and any additional levers that would better secure the automotive and manufacturing sector in the UK. And it’s fair to say that there is a very strong cluster of automotive activity in the north-west and north-east of Wales that actually benefits many companies right across the north Wales strip, and through into mid Wales. We wish to work with colleagues across the border, with local authorities, and with Members of Parliament as well, with whom I spoke yesterday, to develop that cluster even stronger and to ensure that it has a very bright future as we leave the European Union.

Mark Isherwood AC: The head of the PSA Group, which is buying General Motors’ European units said, I believe yesterday, that Brexit means it may be more not less important to have manufacturing in the UK. He insisted that the new combined company would have an opportunity to set new internal benchmarks for performance, but he also said that this will allow plants to be compared and improve; and, of course, production commitments expire in 2021 for Ellesmere Port. Given that the plant is in England, but critically important to north-east Wales and Wales more generally, how will you, and how are you engaging with the UK Government, where the Prime Minister and business Secretary have been in close contact with the PSA Group and General Motors, and have stated that they will continue to engage in work with PSA in the weeks and months ahead to ensure that the commitments made by GM to Vauxhall’s employees and pensioners are kept and will build on the success of Ellesmere Port, and the other affected sites, in the longer term?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank the Member for his question? The Member will be aware that a decision on the Vauxhall Astra had been deferred after Brexit due to uncertainties, and it’s quite clear that for Vauxhall, for Ford, for Nissan—for the entire automotive sector—what is required most is certainty over the future deal that the UK will reach with the European Union. Ellesmere Port is actually currently one of the most productive facilities in the new combined company, but there will be 24 factories across the EU as part of the new company. It will be Europe’s second biggest manufacturer after Volkswagen. We wish to see Ellesmere Port receiving the investment from the UK Government that will enable it to grow and prosper. In terms of the assistance that we can give, of course, with so many people being employed from within Wales at the Vauxhall site in Ellesmere Port, there is a critical role for the skills training provision providers in north Wales, and so, for the regional skills partnership, this is a vitally important piece of work. I know that the colleges in north Wales have provided exceptional employees with the skills that are required to ensure that there’s maximum productivity at the site, and I also know that the regional skills partnership is acutely aware of the challenges, but equally the opportunities, at Ellesmere Port. I have sought a meeting with UK Ministers to discuss the automotive sector. This, of course, is the latest in a series of announcements that demonstrates the very great need for the UK Government to act in a more interventionist manner. The words have been put on paper that suggest the Government is willing to do that, but tomorrow the UK Government can actually throw money behind their words and invest in the manufacturing sector across the UK.

Michelle Brown AC: I note from the media there’s a lot of fear and uncertainty being stoked up around this issue at the moment. Peugeot hasn’t said that it intends to close the plant. Indeed, Peugeot’s boss has suggested that his company will want to keep production in Britain to take advantage of future UK trade deals that could benefit exports. That’s quite a logical position, particularly in light of the fact that the United States is the biggest growth market for British-made cars, with sales jumping by 47 per cent last year. What work are you doing to point out the benefits of car building here, and what attempts are you making to attract Citroën-Peugeot to manufacture in Wales?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Michelle Brown for her questions? Of course, remaining in the single market in the EU would have been the best way to secure manufacturing, not just in Wales, but across the UK, but a decision has been made by the British people to leave the European Union. Against that backdrop, what is absolutely essential is that we invest in future technology to futureproof the automotive sector, particularly as we enter into the fourth industrial revolution. With regard to this, the group chair said that it’s envisaged that £1.47 billion of savings will be achieved per year by 2026 within the Vauxhall-Opel group. That presents challenges, of course, for Ellesmere Port, but the message that I would send very clearly to the group chair is that the Ellesmere Port site has one of the most highly skilled and productive workforces anywhere in the Vauxhall-Opel family, and that instead of looking at cuts or reducing the workforce at the Ellesmere Port site in years to come, it should instead be looking at increasing the amount of manufacturing that takes place at the site. We invest very heavily in the development of the automotive workforce and we’re also working with the automotive sector in seeking new opportunities, particularly in the field of electric motors. The Wales automotive forum has already provided me with an analysis of the likely impact of the decision by PSA to acquire Vauxhall-Opel, and it is believed that the Astra could extend its manufacturing lifespan beyond the end of this decade. That would provide sufficient time for a new product to be identified and brought to the Ellesmere Port site, or indeed for the new combined company to jointly produce a new product and for it to be manufactured here in the UK in Ellesmere Port.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

3. 2. Business Statement and Announcement

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. The next item on our agenda is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the leader of the house, Jane Hutt.

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch, Lywydd. I’ve no changes to report to this week’s business. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: May I request a statement from the Minister for Lifelong Learning and the Welsh Language on the lack of availability of bilingual teaching resources and the impact that that has on Welsh-medium education? It’s something that has been raised from time to time over the last few months. But I understood today that the psychology GCSE won’t be taught through the medium of Welsh anywhere next year, because of the uncertainty about the availability of the necessary materials. Welsh-medium schools in Wales have decided not to provide that course, and bilingual schools have chosen to provide the English course, because they know that the resources will be available. The risk there, of course, is that the authorities will say that there is no demand for such resources and we will see a vicious cycle developing that is entirely unacceptable, in my view, and that is a million miles away, of course, from where we should be if we want to see a million Welsh speakers in Wales by 2050. It lets Welsh-medium schools down. It lets teachers who want to teach through the medium of Welsh down, and it lets pupils who want to be educated through the medium of Welsh down. And it undermines all ambitions that the Government has in terms of the Welsh language. So, I would kindly request that the relevant Minister appear before us to explain exactly what the Government is doing, and how they see that this is acceptable in any way whatsoever.

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llyr Gruffydd. It is very important that we do get the evidence to substantiate these concerns underpinning this question today. My understanding is that, in terms of psychology, it’s being ceased in both English and Welsh in 2018—English and Welsh—therefore, that obviously drives that decision, and, also, that the GCSE biology book was available last October. So, we don’t know why the school in question, which I understand is partly where this question has arisen from, didn’t receive a copy. So, obviously, it is a matter of exploring what these claims are in terms of getting the appropriate evidence and response.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Could I seek two statements from you, leader of the house, if possible, please? On Friday, I met with Llantwit Major Town Council, and Llanmaes Community Council. I know you, in your capacity as the constituency Member of the Vale of Glamorgan, have also met with them, but there is widespread concern over the northern access road, which the Welsh Government is promoting within that particular area, and the inability for the councils’ views to be taken into consideration about the transport options around the exciting development around the Aston Martin development in the Red Dragon hangar. Everyone’s supportive of that development—it’s some of the transport options that are being discussed. And, actually, there’s the feeling that they’re being steamrollered through when the existing infrastructure around there, the Eglwys Brewis road, is deemed sufficient by some people to actually meet the transport needs of the future of that area. And also the flood preventative measures that have been identified for the village of Llanmaes have now, from what the community council tell me, been pushed back, and are dependent on the northern access road actually being built and completed. Obviously, the community were given an assurance in March last year, just on the eve of the Assembly elections ironically, that £400,000, I believe, was going to be made available for these preventative works to be undertaken for Llanmaes, and now they are being told, after the election, that that is not to be the case. So, could we have a statement from the two Ministers concerned here, around flood prevention, but also around the economic footprint about the northern access road, as to exactly what engagement will be carried out with the community going forward, and, importantly, what evaluations of the existing transport routes around that area have been made? Because it would seem foolish to me to spend £15 million on a new road when a considerably smaller sum of money might achieve the end goal on the existing infrastructure that is there. So, I’d be grateful for a statement on either one of those accounts.And the second statement I’d be grateful for is over the condition of the A48 from Culverhouse Cross to Bridgend. You will be aware of several accidents that happened last week. I think it was six in total, I am told, that happened that week—[Interruption.] It is not a speech—I can hear that coming from a sedentary position. When you have six accidents on a stretch of road, there is a cause for concern, I would suggest. Thankfully, no-one was killed, but there were some serious injuries. And, if you drive that stretch of road between Culverhouse Cross and Bridgend, the surface of that road is in an appalling condition, with several very deep potholes. I’d be grateful to understand what evaluation has been taken by the traffic management of the Welsh Government as to what maintenance might be required for that road, and, in particular, the safety measures that might be put in place to alleviate some of these traffic hazards that do exist on that stretch of road between Culverhouse Cross and Bridgend.

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you to R.T. Davies for those questions—very much constituency questions that I’m engaged in as the Vale of Glamorgan Assembly Member. But I think, just on to the first two-part question, I understand—and I have been very involved, indeed, in encouraging the Welsh Government to consult with all of the town and community councils affected in terms of the proposal for the northern access road, and, indeed, was able to secure an exhibition to be held in Llantwit Major, following it being held in St Athan, and Llanmaes as well. So, it is only right and proper that town and community councils are responding to that. But, clearly, this is now for the Vale of Glamorgan Council, in terms of planning applications. And indeed, of course, the Cabinet Secretary for economy and transport is fully engaged in this, because, as you say—and you do welcome the exciting development of Aston Martin, who are now in their first phase of construction in St Athan.I think your second point, of course, and the Cabinet Secretary is here with us, in terms of environment and rural affairs—the money for Llanmaes has been promised for many years. My frustration is as deep as yours—and the people of Llanmaes. We need to get this work done. But, as you are aware, of course, Boverton, the work has now commenced in the village, below Llanmaes and Boverton, and that, of course, is very welcome, and it will also—the money will be spent in Llanmaes as well.Your second point: of course, we, locally, are very aware of those accidents. That sharp frost, unexpected—the roads were gritted, we know, from the Vale of Glamorgan Council, and, of course, the condition of the A48 is something that, I know, will be considered.

Mike Hedges AC: Whilst improved transport links are not part of Swansea bay city region proposal, which, quite correctly, is based upon improving economic prosperity, and thus the gross value added, there’s a need for improved bus, road and rail links within the city region. Some people are physically remote from employment, retail and leisure facilities, sometimes when they don’t actually live that far away from them, but, because of the lack of transport facilities, they’re unable to get there. Can I ask for a Government statement on a programme to improve transport links within the Swansea bay city region?

Jane Hutt AC: These are crucial in terms of the opportunities that the Swansea city region is taking forward, particularly in relation to the city deal opportunities as well. We did announce, as Mike Hedges knows, nearly £29 million funding for transport schemes across Wales, to improve safety and help in terms of levers for economic growth and promoting active travel. And the city regions have been able to influence transport planning processes at a local and national level. But, of course, we have funded a number of enhancements to rail infrastructure and services for Swansea, and its economic area, in recent years.And I think this is a crucial point in terms of strategic development. I can go on about bus services being improved, but roads as well, as you say, are crucially important in terms of grant funding for the local transport fund of £13 million in this financial year to local authorities in south Wales for transport schemes. And this does include allocations to the city and county of Swansea for completing the Morfa distributor road, for the A483 Fabian Way corridor—that’s at business case—work for infrastructure enhancements, and also, crucially, Kingsbridge link scheme, which is the key section on the Swansea active travel.I could go on, but I think that’s enough to answer that question.

Steffan Lewis AC: Yesterday, Newsquest announced the closure of its hub in Newport, with the loss of 14 jobs. Sadly, of course, this is a reflection of the general trend in print media, and, obviously, we are even more susceptible to that here in Wales. I notice the Cabinet Secretary for the economy is in the Chamber. I wonder if we could have at least a written statement from him, which could include perhaps information on why Newsquest decided to cease operations in Newport but to maintain them in Weymouth, and, specifically and very importantly, what intervention the Welsh Government proposes to support the members of staff there, in terms of their future career prospects. And also, I think, maybe this could act as a further catalyst for greater Welsh Government intervention in the print media sector in general, as we move forward.

Jane Hutt AC: Well, thanks, Steffan Lewis, for this question. I believe questions on this have been raised with the Cabinet Secretary many times from the floor. Certainly, the Cabinet Secretary will be very happy to update Members in the course of business. So, thank you for the question today.

Suzy Davies AC: I wonder if I could just ask for two statements, please, leader of the house. The first—I see the Cabinet Secretary is here—is about the regulation of wood waste sites. I know this is an issue that’s come up before, but, in view of the fire at Llandow, which has affected residents and at least one small business recently, I think maybe this is something we’d be very, very grateful to hear from you soon, not least whether Natural Resources Wales will have the capacity and resources, actually, to support, or fulfil, any regulatory change that you may be able to introduce. But just an update on that would be very gratefully received.The second—I wonder, it’s been some time now since the Welsh Government invested in the Pinewood studios. Obviously, that investment was made on the basis of a range of key performance indicators. We heard quite a lot at the time about the local economic impact and jobs created. But, as I say, it was some time ago now. It would be quite useful, I think, if we could have an update on how well that’s gone. Thank you.

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you very much, Suzy Davies. In fact, I have been very involved in the impact and outcome of a fourth fire at Llandow industrial estate, which happened on Thursday night—visiting on Friday morning and again yesterday as well, meeting with NRW, who then issued a suspension order, working with local businesses like the Llandow caravan park and, indeed, the circuit there. Those who live in that area will see the smoke and the impact on the much wider community. NRW, of course, and the Cabinet Secretary are very clear, again, about whether there are the regulatory opportunities to take action as a result of these very unfortunate fires in these sites.Second point—yes, the Cabinet Secretary would be happy. It’s appropriate—timely—to do an update on Pinewood studios.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Sport, as we know, has so many, many upsides, but I wonder if we can find time for a statement or a debate on the issue of sport and behaviour, both on the sports field and off, following the unfortunate coverage of the on-field brawl during a rugby league 3 match during the weekend. As somebody who’s followed and even played rugby as a hooker as a youngster, and come off on the worst end of some of the dark arts at the bottom of a scrum or on a touchline, I do understand the passions. But when they boil over into anger or even into brawls—not only on the field, but I’ve often seen it as well unfortunately sometimes on the touchlines when it gets too heated. So, it would be good to find a debate for that so that we could discuss that, the role of role models on the field, the role models of parents and spectators, but also to discuss the role of the governing bodies, such as the WRU and the FAW and others. This is exceptional, but, where it does happen, we need to speak out against it and make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Jane Hutt AC: I’m glad Huw Irranca-Davies has raised this question. The Welsh Government, of course, wants to see more people taking part in sport and to be able to enjoy the experience both off and on the field, and condemns any violence during matches and outside, as you’ve described. We will consult with colleagues in the Government over the opportunities we have to respond fully to this in terms of a possible statement or debate on sporting behaviour. But I think, just looking at football, the FAW have in place a Fair Play Award—that’s about raising awareness for the good of Welsh football. And there’s a reward. Clubs—and, in fact, winners can receive a monetary incentive worth £1,000 towards equipment and also ground improvements. The WRU have begun investigating events in Newport and, indeed, that is an important response—a detailed disciplinary process they have in place and, of course, the teams involved have been contacted and will be dealt with accordingly.

Simon Thomas AC: I wonder if it’s the Government’s intention to bring forward a debate in Government time on the issue of broadband for Welsh communities, and specifically the Superfast Cymru programme. Many questions have been asked of the First Minister during questions, and, had the Llywydd been patient, I think every one of us could have asked a question about communities that are having difficulty at the moment in accessing Superfast Cymru. The most recent example I’ve seen in my region is a u-turn by BT in providing broadband for Llanymawddwy. There was a meeting last June with the MP, Liz Saville-Roberts, in attendance, when a pledge was made that Superfast Cymru would come to Llanymawddwy. BT have now u-turned. It’s the first time that I have seen a complete u-turn; there have been delays and reprogramming, but not a full u-turn, saying that broadband won’t be available for this village, despite the pledges made in the past. For people who consider that remote places are too far away to have modern technology, this happens to be where the first colour film was made ever in Wales. So, we should perhaps rethink where creativity and new technology starts in Wales. Of course, the subject of that film was the red bandits of Mawddwy. So, unless you want a revolt in the hills of Montgomeryshire, it may be time to look at this again in a debate in Government time for us all to understand where Superfast Cymru is going and whether it is keeping the pledges that have been made to Assembly Members.

Jane Hutt AC: Simon Thomas draws attention to one particularly important location where there have been these frustrations. In fact, Nick Ramsay drew attention earlier on to the delight of the people of Tintern, while drawing attention to surrounding areas. So, I think that we have to recognise that there are still issues, but, to date, over 621,000 premises across Wales are able to receive superfast broadband thanks to the programme. Wales has got the best superfast broadband coverage among the devolved nations, but it is that work that has to continue, which means that the number of premises across Wales with the ability to access superfast broadband is continuing to rise. Our Access Broadband Cymru scheme, which the Member will be fully aware of, also offers assistance to those not part of the roll-out in terms of grant aid. We’re also looking, it was announced in November, at how to reach the final few premises once Superfast Cymru comes to an end in 2017, with an investment of up to £80 million. So, that will inform the next scheme, but clearly there are infrastructure, land availability—there are issues that then can lead to the disappointment that you experienced from your constituents. I think it’s important that you shared that today and that I’ve given you an update on the progress that we’ve made. So, whole counties—Conwy, Gwynedd, Blaenau Gwent, Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion—would have been left without any access without the intervention, of course, of Superfast Cymru.

Mark Isherwood AC: I raise two items of business. First, I call for a statement acknowledging that yesterday marked the beginning of the tenth UK National Apprenticeship Week, not to recycle the arguments we’ve already had here around the levy, but the broader issues that are being brought to the fore. For example, many charities, like the National Deaf Children’s Society, are disappointed, putting it politely, that apprenticeships won’t be covered by the proposed new additional learning needs legislation as it currently stands, and such as new research by Centrica, owner of British Gas, which found that nearly one in two young people would be attracted to work for a company with opportunities across the UK, compared to just over one in four young people in Wales, who didn’t believe this was a priority for them. Although university is still viewed as the ideal start, and most people surveyed don’t view apprenticeships as the best starting point to reach senior positions, 90 per cent of Centrica’s apprentices, for example—I’m sure that’s reciprocated elsewhere—feel better equipped for the world of work than friends who went to college or university.Secondly, and finally, I call for at the very least an oral statement, and preferably a Government debate, on ‘Moving North Wales Forward’, the Welsh Government vision for north Wales and the north-east Wales metro. This is a vitally important matter for north Wales. We’ve been waiting many, many months for the Welsh Government to detail its response to the proposals that have been made. Instead, we just got a written statement last Thursday full of platitudes, such as‘Modernising transport in North Wales…will contribute to the achievement of our well-being objectives’,and‘There are strong links between the economy of North East Wales and that of North West England’.We didn’t need a statement to tell us that. And we had recycled announcements such as on the bus summit, which, vitally important though it is, we’ve had statement after statement after statement in the Chamber, and the proposals for Deeside and Wrexham that we’ve heard many times also.The only reference to the rest of north Wales was the third Menai crossing, which is, in fact, a recycled consultation, because for the last one, nine years ago, the recommendations were ignored.Finally, and most importantly, it refers to making‘the case to the UK Government for a fairer share of rail funding’,knowing full well that that’s predicated upon the growth vision for north Wales and Growth Track 360, which were presented to the UK Government early last summer and are critical to whether the UK Government can invest in north Wales electrification and other matters, as the Minister well knows. Simply saying that you will look at‘regional arrangements associated with public sector reform and Growth Bids’as they develop isn’t good enough. Until we know how the Welsh Government is going to respond to those proposals, we don’t know how this can go forward.

Jane Hutt AC: Well, I think, in terms of your first question, as far as the Welsh Government’s concerned, we’re only too delighted to celebrate National Apprenticeship Week, considering we as a Welsh Labour Government have committed to developing 100,000 apprenticeships, even at this tough time. That is about us choosing priorities that we know will have the kind of impact that you describe so well, Mark Isherwood, in terms of the opportunities for young people. In fact, it was very good to hear, I think on Monday morning, on ‘Good Morning Wales’ a young person who had successfully entered an apprenticeship rather than going to university, which was an option, or she hadn’t been appropriate, in British Gas. But we also know, in terms of the opportunities for the apprenticeship scheme that we developed, of course, it has been backed by European funding, and a disappointment for us is that we don’t know, in terms of the future, how we can use that all-important European funding in terms of skills to take this forward. But the 100,000 apprenticeships that we are funding will make a huge difference. In terms of moving north Wales forward, well, yes, I’m sure that you would welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary for economy and transport did acknowledge, applaud and welcome the very good cross-local authority partnership working in north Wales. North Wales, of course, features very highly in terms of investment. So, do you want me again to remind you, Mark Isherwood—I’m very happy to do so—for example, of the works on the A55, improving safety and resilience, carried out during the winter when traffic flows are at their lowest, completing all planned daytime work on the A55 before Easter. Clearly, that’s going to be very important in terms of impact with Conwy council. Caernarfon to Bontnewydd bypass public inquiry date—the Cabinet Secretary has agreed to hold a public local enquiry for the A487 Caernarfon to Bontnewydd bypass, and we’re finalising details. A third Menai crossing—I think you mentioned that, as only one example. A clear, long-term commitment to a third Menai crossing, and we are looking at possible solutions to the existing Britannia bridge, because this is crucial in terms of access to Wylfa Newydd. The Deeside corridor consultation [Interruption.] I will continue, as you asked me the question—consultation on the Deeside corridor project, beginning on 13 March, lasting 12 weeks. And looking at those all-important issues around Queensferry and Northop, that’s going to represent investment of over £200 million, and, of course, as far as rail is concerned, north Wales will benefit as a result and as we take forward the Wales and borders rail services and metro consultations in north and south Wales. So, you know, you welcomed the bus summit; this was just one aspect of where north Wales is featuring so strongly with the Cabinet Secretary for the economy and transport.

Julie Morgan AC: Would it be possible for the leader of the house, or for the Government, to clear up the implications of Trump’s latest travel ban and its effect on Welsh residents and their families, by perhaps a written statement? The list of countries includes Somalia, and, as the leader of the house knows, there are many people from Somalia living in Cardiff, nearly all from Somaliland. Would it be possible for the Government to clarify whether the ban includes Somaliland, which de facto does operate as a separate country, and, obviously, if it does, this would have implications for Welsh residents and their families?

Jane Hutt AC: Julie Morgan raises a very vital question that is of great concern to her constituents and the people we represent here in Wales. Welsh Government officials have, I can confirm, spoken today to their counterparts in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. They’ve confirmed that Somaliland is normally treated by the international community as an integral part of Somalia, so the Foreign and Commonwealth Office expects that the latest US travel ban will impact equally on all Somalians, including those from Somaliland. This, in fact, was the case with the previous US travel ban. There’s no indication at present of any distinction being made this time, but our officials have highlighted the concerns of the Somali community in Wales. We’ve requested any further information about the likely impact of the ban on Somalia and the other countries as well that are included in the latest ban, and that this should be shared with the Welsh Government as soon as possible. As was the case with the previous US travel ban, much remains unclear about the details, about the practical implications of the ban, of President Trump’s latest announcement. The Welsh Government continues to have serious concerns about the restrictions being put in place, and I would hope that those concerns would be shared across this Chamber. We’ll continue to urge the UK Government to do everything possible to ensure the interests and rights of Welsh citizens are not harmed.I would say also, finally, that Wales is making a significant contribution to the refugee crisis by receiving refugees and asylum seekers in almost every part of the country. We’ve a solemn duty to help and protect refugees and the Welsh Government takes that very seriously. We have benefited from inward migration, we believe that migrants make a positive contribution to Wales’s economy and to our society more widely, and we stand in full solidarity with all our people, irrespective of their country of origin or religion, and the UK Government should represent all of our citizens in discussions with the US Government.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Cabinet Secretary, may I ask for a statement from the Welsh Government on the announcement of 60 job losses in Careers Wales? Careers Wales provides independent careers information, advice and guidance to people of all ages in Wales. It helps people make realistic career decisions, whether by encouraging further learning, training, skills development or employment. It is a matter of great concern, therefore, that 60 jobs—nearly 10 per cent of the workforce—are under threat due to the Welsh Government cutting its funding. One of the key roles of Careers Wales is to assist the implementation of Welsh Government’s programmes. Indeed, they are bidding at present to provide the Welsh Government’s employability and apprenticeship training programme. Shedding so many jobs must call into question the ability of Careers Wales to effectively deliver Welsh Government’s programmes and provide quality careers advice to students and people out of work. I should be grateful if the Welsh Government would make a statement on this important issue now. Thank you.

Jane Hutt AC: Well, I do sometimes wonder where Mohammad Asghar thinks that we’re going to find our funding, you know, with a £1.8 billion cut and more austerity to come. But, I think we need to look at this serious question, and important question, carefully. We were aware of Careers Wales’s decision to initiate consultation on a voluntary release scheme, and we do hope and expect that Careers Wales and its staff and trade unions can work collaboratively on this issue to improve and help the financial sustainability of this very important service, which, as you say, does deliver important outcomes to our learners—to all-age learners in Wales.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Dawn Bowden AC: Leader of the house, there appears to be a growing trend by some to call into question the independence of our courts, tribunals and similar bodies. I’m sure you’ll agree with me, leader of the house, that the effectiveness of these bodies and the protections that they provide for citizens in this country rely on us all respecting the independent role that they play, even if we don’t like the results. Would the Welsh Government consider, therefore, making a statement that sets out the operation of the Adjudication Panel for Wales, and its independence, so that we can ensure its integrity isn’t undermined and so that the public can have confidence in the decisions it makes?

Jane Hutt AC: I thank Dawn Bowden for that important question. The Adjudication Panel for Wales is an independent tribunal. Its function is to determine alleged breaches by elected and co-opted members of Welsh county, county borough and community councils, fire and national park authorities, against their authority’s statutory code of conduct. Members of the tribunal are appointed by the Welsh Ministers through an independent judicial appointment process, conducted by the Judicial Appointments Commission. Welsh Ministers have no involvement in the tribunal’s decisions, which are made by members of the tribunal on the basis of evidence before them.

Thank you very much, leader of the house.

4. 3. Statement: The Refreshed Stroke Delivery Plan

Item 3 on our agenda this afternoon is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport on the refreshed stroke delivery plan. I call on Vaughan Gething.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. On 13 February this year, I published the updated stroke delivery plan. This plan reaffirms our continued commitment for all people of all ages to have the lowest possible risk of having a stroke. When stroke does occur, we want people to have an excellent chance of surviving and returning to independence as quickly as possible. The delivery plan sets out the expectations of all stakeholders and provides a framework for action by health boards, NHS trusts and partnership organisations. Each year, around 7,000 people in Wales will have a stroke. This can have a very serious and lasting impact on the lives of individuals and their families. The Stroke Association estimates that there are currently in excess of 60,000 stroke survivors living in Wales. But good progress has been made since the original stroke plan was published and, most significantly, the number of people dying from strokes is reducing. Deaths from strokes in Wales have fallen by 22 per cent from 2010 to 2015. The latest results published this March by the England, Wales and Northern Ireland Sentinel Stroke National Audit Programme—I’ll refer to it as SSNAP later on in the statement, If I may—that audit showed that stroke services across Wales continue to improve. The most improved site over the last two audit cycles is the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff, with two other sites in Wales achieving a similar positive good overall rating. They are the Royal Gwent and Withybush hospitals. We are now in a strong position to move ahead with even greater pace. The stroke implementation group provides our national leadership and support, together with a national clinical lead, based in Bronglais in Aberystwyth. They’re driving improvement and there is also a recently appointed national stroke co-ordinator. It is the co-ordinator’s primary role to support the implementation of the stroke delivery plan. The implementation group, in common with other groups, brings together health boards, the third sector and the Welsh Government to work collaboratively. The group has identified its priorities for 2017-18 and these include: identifying individuals with atrial fibrillation; the reconfiguration of stroke services in Wales, including the development of hyper-acute services; community rehabilitation; the development of a stroke research network and developing and responding to patient experience and outcome measures. These priorities will continue to be supported by £1 million from the Welsh Government for innovation and research to improve reducing the risk of a stroke and achieving better patient outcomes. We have that £1 million still being provided to each and every one of our major conditions implementation groups. In this instance, that specific funding has helped to provide training at Prince Charles Hospital in Merthyr to enable nurse-led administration of thrombolytic medication for patients within the A&E department. In Cardiff and Vale, it has been used to support the pilot Stop the Stroke initiative, and that trains staff to identify patients with atrial fibrillation who may benefit from anticoagulation drugs. Preliminary results show that if the findings were replicated with similar success across other health boards, over a five-year period, more than 1,000 strokes could be prevented across Wales. The stroke implementation group is funding additional pilots in other health boards ahead of a possible national roll-out. I also want to say something about the Welsh ambulance service, because they play a significant part in the success story of improving stroke outcomes here in Wales. It is so much more than a rapid delivery service. We now assess and publish the care that the ambulance service provides as part of the ambulance quality indicators. There is a very high level of compliance with the stroke care bundle that they deliver. But we do, of course, continue to rely upon a strong team of health and care professionals to deliver improved outcomes for people who have strokes. So, nurses, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists and many others, as well as doctors, are part of that healthcare team. Successful rehabilitation also relies upon having the right care support in place. Like many others in this room, I have seen that support from healthcare, local authorities and the third sector within my own family. We can, I believe, be confident that some further improvement is possible in stroke outcomes within our current services. However, our stroke services need to be planned in a way to make the very best use of finite resources to improve outcomes and to aid in the challenges of recruiting specialist staff. Last year, the stroke implementation group commissioned the Royal College of Physicians to review the options for the reconfiguration of hyper-acute stroke services here in Wales. Stroke services were modelled to incorporate geography, travel times, boundary issues, current stroke services and co-dependencies. NHS Wales chief executives have asked the stroke implementation group and health boards to work together to consider the implications of that report and what actions need to be taken across Wales to reconfigure stroke services to ensure the maximum benefit possible for patients. But we have already seen the benefits of the reconfiguration of services and what they can bring in Wales. Over the last 12 months, the Aneurin Bevan university health board have seen considerable improvements in their stroke outcomes and performance levels, because their seven-day multidisciplinary stroke service is now provided for patients from across the health board area by a hyper-acute stroke unit at the Royal Gwent Hospital. I visited the unit last year, when I actually met the then nurse of the year; that’s the unit that she works on. And I heard first-hand from a variety of professional staff, including those who had been recruited into that unit and had specifically come to that unit in Wales on the basis of it becoming a hyper-acute stroke unit.Patients spend an average of three days of care in the hyper-acute unit. By that time, if they’ve not already been discharged home under the care of the community neuro-rehabilitation service, patients will be transferred to a specialist stroke unit for acute step-down care closer to home for the next stage of their stroke rehabilitation. The time required for this varies, but it’s an average of six weeks. The Royal Gwent Hospital I think is a care model that is a flagship in Wales, and it’s leading the way for other stroke services in Wales. I look forward to hearing how other health boards will work with the implementation group, clinicians and patients to take similar action to improve outcomes for patients.The citizen, of course, has a central role to play in avoiding strokes. As with so many major conditions that take lives or lead to disability, smoking, diet, exercise and alcohol are all major risk factors. Unhelpfully, some people try to describe this as blaming people for being ill. But we all recognise that the imperatives for significant and wide-scale change in the choices that we each make in living our lives could not be clearer. This does not just apply to stroke care. We as a country need to have a much more mature debate that is clear about our own individual responsibilities, the consequences of our choices and how we make healthier choices easier choices. I expect stroke care to be part of a drive across healthcare to deliver a more equal relationship between the citizen and the clinician. Health and care services need to listen to and understand what outcomes and experiences matter to the citizen. In 2016, the stroke implementation group worked in partnership with the neurological conditions implementation group to develop patient-related experience measures, or PREMs, and patient-related outcome measures, or PROMs, for stroke and neurological conditions in Wales. The programme aims to gain a real insight into services from a patient perspective, and to use their real life experience to help improve services. By March 2018, my aim is for Wales to have PREMs and PROMs that can be administered, collected and collated on a national level. These should help to identify inequalities in health and care provision across Wales, support the evaluation of service development and demonstrate real and meaningful change over time. This updated stroke delivery plan was developed through effective partnership working. That continued co-operation between the Welsh Government, the implementation group, the NHS, professional bodies and the third sector is key to delivering improved outcomes at greater pace and with greater impact, because we should all recognise that the challenges ahead are many and significant, but we can look to the future with a sense of shared direction and confidence. My unambiguous focus is on shaping a health and care system that delivers the very best possible outcomes for stroke patients throughout Wales.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you for the statement. I think I have four questions that I’d be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could respond to. Survival rates have risen in Wales, as elsewhere. New technology and better treatment have ensured that and, of course, we welcome that, and there has been a clear focus on rolling out these new treatments and on improving survival rates. But the services that are offered post stroke I think need improvement, and I think that point is conceded in the new delivery plan. What is needed is for all stroke survivors, not just some, to be receiving the six-month review, for example, and to receive the appropriate rehabilitation services. This means, inevitably, a need for physios, occupational therapists and ensuring that institutional barriers don’t prevent delays in these being provided. But there’s a lack of data on how many survivors are actually receiving the reviews. So, my usual data question: when will more data be made available on the six-month reviews? There are also other health problems that can be caused by stroke, and therefore patients would benefit from monitoring closer, post stoke, in case these problems develop. For example, stroke can trigger the onset of dementia. Also, around 20 per cent of stroke patients have depression following a stroke. So, the second question: has the Cabinet Secretary considered what ways can be developed to monitor this, in order to develop intervention?I’ll turn to the third sector and draw attention to the tremendous work done by the Stroke Association. Funding cuts—in my constituency, certainly—mean that cuts in staff have become necessary. That means cuts and impacts on services, and in the ability of the Stroke Association to help patients through the recovery process. For example, 1,500 people in my constituency have survived a stroke—above the average. Nearly 1,500 have been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation—again, above the average. That’s now; that’s the challenge we’re facing. In future: over 11,000 have been diagnosed with high blood pressure, so we have many people in high-risk categories, when we have a Stroke Association who want to contribute with the provision of social contact and stimulation, the promotion of physical and mental health and well-being, the reduction in dependency on long-term social services provision and so on—it’s a long list. Can I ask, as my third question, what assurance the Cabinet Secretary can give that Government, working with health boards, will give leadership in ensuring that the third sector services can be maintained and enhanced in future, as an integral part of the care system? And finally, survival rates across the UK are dependent upon income. They follow the usual pattern of health inequalities, with people in poorer areas, frankly, less likely to survive a stroke. And whilst, obviously, healthier lifestyles—we can all be agreed on that—would help to prevent some strokes, will the Cabinet Secretary look at whether the rehabilitation services available in poorer communities are as good as elsewhere, and make sure that service provision here doesn’t follow the inverse care law?

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for that series of questions. I recognise what you had to say at the start about new technology, but I don’t think the better treatment that you refer to is a simple matter of accident, or that it’s inevitable. Those are deliberate choices that our clinicians are making. And actually, bringing together the stroke delivery plan and the implementation group has actually helped to advance those choices. There’s much greater conversation across Wales and helpful peer support and challenge about what are better models of care—both at the immediate point, but also in the sense of what rehabilitation could and should look like. That is also having to drive the conversation about reconfiguration of stroke services. I want to see more pace injected in that conversation and reaching a conclusion, because if we’re able to do that, then the points you make about better treatment at the outset—we’re more likely to deliver better treatment across the country if we do that, and if we have an agreed model for the future as well.So, this really does matter, because if we do that, we’re more likely to save more lives and prevent avoidable long-term disability as well. So, there is a real price to pay in not doing this, as well as a real gain to be made if we can do it. In terms of your point—there were a number of points you made about rehabilitation and about, if you like, a person’s general well-being and not just their physical well-being as well. I recognise the points you’re making because, of course, that’s why I think the PROMs and PREMs measures matter. So, for that person, what matters to them in terms of, if you like, their clinical outcomes, but what matters for them in terms of their experience, and what, for them, matters and what is important. For some people, they may want to undertake rehabilitation so they can walk to the end of their street or walk to a local cafe or walk to a local social centre. And that isn’t just the physical part of actually recovering and being able to do that; it’s actually about being able to have that wider social interaction as well, and the points about their general well-being. In each of these, there is a danger that we only see the condition rather than seeing the whole person and what it is that makes them someone who actually has a life they enjoy leading and living. And on your broader point about the team who are supposed to provide this care, that’s one of the points I was trying to make. Having the right people available to deliver that improved rehab: that’s part of the reason why I announced that £95 million investment in the future of healthcare professionals in recent weeks, because we know we will need more healthcare professionals to deliver the quality of care that all of us would wish to see.I was grateful to you for actually raising the issues in your own constituency—the numbers of people who have survived stroke, the numbers of people living with increased risk factors already, but also the particularly stark figures of people living with higher blood pressure and the significant additional risk they face from a number of conditions. That’s something that’s particularly personal for me given my own family history, because I understand what that really can mean and the range of risks that exist as well. That’s why I made the point, quite unashamedly, and why we will all need to return to this time and time again, as you did as well—. What it is—it’s to actually make healthier choices and the reduction in risk that that will deliver, and, actually, what that then means in terms of people having not just a longer life but a longer, healthier life. We haven’t been successful enough as a country in having that debate and in changing attitudes to the choices that each of us make and that we see made in each of our communities. The third sector are an important part of that as well. I’m happy to say that when you look at the deliberate choice we’ve made in how to construct our implementation groups, the third sector are important partners within that, because of the expertise they bring, either in being champions in the service or for patients, and many of them are service providers as well. So, they are part of the architecture that we have deliberately designed, and there’s certainly no intention and no desire from this Government to unpick their role in helping to deliver those health and care services. The challenge will always be how we use our limited resources, and, unfortunately, tomorrow I’m not expecting there to be good news in the way that funding is distributed around the United Kingdom. What I couldn’t tell you or anyone else in the statutory sector or the third sector is that there’ll be a sudden tidal wave of money coming in to these services—regardless of how important they are, we will all have incredibly difficult choices to make on where that money is distributed and prioritised and used for the best possible impact for each of our citizens. And finally, dealing with your point about inequalities—we have taken this on board seriously about how we understand risk. That’s why the Living Well, Living Longer programme in Aneurin Bevan, and the similar programme in Cwm Taf are being rolled out, because we’re getting to people who are not interacting with the health service but are carrying significant increased risk. Because I recognise we do still see far too high a level of inequality within socioeconomic groups and that is not something that this Government finds acceptable.

Angela Burns AC: Cabinet Secretary, thank you for your statement today. I welcome hugely the great strides made forward in the delivery of stroke services. There was much in this report that I found to be of really good news. I do have a couple of questions, though, that spin from it. The first is that NICE guidelines suggest that patients suffering from stroke should, as you know, start thrombolysis within three hours of arriving at hospital. I’ve submitted an FOI on this to all the health boards, and from the responses I’ve received so far, which is just three of them, they’ve all had, consistently, patients waiting for between three and five hours. I wondered if you could tell me what plans are in place to ensure that these health boards are able to start this treatment within the three-hour window. And if I could just refer back to the debate last week on the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust, this is entirely the point that I was trying to make about strokes not being in the red category, because my concern is that, if they’ve waited a while out in the field, and then they’re still waiting again whilst they’re in hospital, then by the time they actually have that treatment, they are many, many hours down the road and therefore are less likely to have success. Just whilst we’re on the recommended guidelines, could you also please make a comment on the Royal College of Physicians’s recent guidelines that say that they believe that all stroke patients should receive a brain scan within one hour, and whether or not you think that we are able to drive towards that?My second area of questioning concerns strokes in children and babies. Now, I admit they’re rare, but I wondered if there’s been anything specifically done to minimise such occurrences. The framework refers to the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health consulting on stroke-in-childhood clinical guidelines. Could you please provide an indication of when you expect this to be published and how long it might take to implement any recommendations? There obviously needs to be a clear pathway for the treatment of children and babies and, because it is rare, I do accept that it is unrealistic for every health board to have full provision, so I wondered what plans you might be putting in place so that children and babies who suffer strokes can access that very, very vital service.Finally, the last area I’d like to concentrate on is the inequality agenda—or the equality agenda. According to the ‘State of the Nation’, and the stroke statistics published last year, people from a black or south-Asian background have strokes at a significantly younger age than Caucasian people. Is there anything being done to specifically target healthcare education and preventative measures to those communities? At present, they are being disadvantaged because of the sheer prevalence within their cultural community, or cultural heritage, and it would be really useful to know what Government plans there are to actually tackle that specific area. Finally, Wales has the highest percentage of people with high blood pressure per population in the UK and, again, I wondered if, as part of the stroke delivery plan, you might be looking to see if there are any updates you can give us on what we might do to drive that down, if anything’s changed in the last 18 months. Thank you very much.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the series of questions. I wouldn’t say that your questions spin from you; I’ve got to say they flow from you. I wouldn’t want to have any adverse—[Inaudible.]—about spin at this point in time. But I recognise the points that you make on a range of different improvement measures, and in particular the significant additional risk measures for some groups within our population and for people going across—[Inaudible.] Actually, one of the priorities that the implementation group has had is a common approach to cardiovascular risk assessment with other implementation groups. They’ve actually jointly pooled some of their money to undertake a wider and more significant cardiovascular risk assessment. And that’s been helpful in the conversations that I had in my previous role as the then Deputy Minister in talking to leading third sector groups about how that could work. So, there’s been a—[Inaudible.]—that has been drawn together from that third sector group, and that’s been really helpful in getting their own implementation groups, which they then link into specifically, to undertake a joint piece of work. There is a recognition, as I said in my statement, across the health boards that the risk factors we’ve discussed and described here are risk factors in other major diseases and other major causes of death and disability.On your point about the NICE guidance about the time for thrombolysis and in particular, your point about the RCP guidance on CT scans within an hour of admission, the points that I’d make in response go back to the improvement that we’ve already seen. That is that the snap audit looks at everywhere in the UK apart from Scotland and it’s been a really useful tool for driving improvement. Because when we first started looking at this about three years ago, actually, they had five categories: A, which is world class; B, which is very good; C, which is good; D, needs improvement; and E, which isn’t great. At that time, when we started, we had one site in Wales of the ones that regularly admit at level D, and all the others were at E level. So, we had significant improvement to make. We now have three or four sites at B, the majority at C or B, and, actually, we have no sites at E. So, overall in Wales, we’ve made significant improvement. However, the challenge is that we have more improvement to make again, and that’s why your point about the improvement that we expect to see will be greater adherence to NICE guidance, but also the measures and the fields that the snap audit measures—. And that will change in accordance with the RCP guidance on CT scans within an hour of admission.Part of our challenge will be understanding, if we’re going to go about reconfiguring stroke care, how we can do that in a way that doesn’t compromise our ability to ensure that someone gets the right treatment at the right time, so that they quickly get taken to the right centre for their treatment, and then, once there, they receive the right treatment in that centre. I actually think it reinforces the case for reconfiguration to ensure that we have proper centres to deliver the right care within that time. That’s why I said earlier that I want to see the whole service—the clinicians working together, working with the third sector, and the public as well—to understand what that improvement could and should look like and having a conversation that sets out for the public the options for improvement and what it will mean if we reconfigure those services, not just in terms of where things are physically based, but, actually, what that means in terms of quality of care that you could expect if you had this medical emergency and you had to go there. I really do think the price to pay for not doing that is actually living with and tolerating unacceptable outcomes in terms of the level of disability we’re likely to see or the level of avoidable mortality that we could otherwise see. So, I recognise the points you make, and as we go through, having further snap audit outcomes, you’ll see what I expect to see is that further gradual improvement continuing.Dealing with your point about strokes in children and babies, it’s an area of research activity and the research priority has been set. This is a particular area of concern about developing our research capacity in Wales and understand what we could and should do. I can’t give you a timescale for the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health work, but, obviously, once it’s provided, I’d expect that the Government will look at it, and I’d expect the NHS, and, indeed, the implementation group, to look at it to understand how that affects their priorities, what they think we should do to have the biggest impact on making the biggest improvement possible for people with stroke in Wales. So, they’re all valid questions, and I expect to see that work carrying on in the future.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Can I welcome this statement, but also the remarks that the Cabinet Secretary made about the role of the ambulance service here and the quality of care they provide? And also, he will have seen that at his visit last week to Bryncethin ambulance station, and he could see the dedication and the professionalism of all of the people involved there in responding to the needs of the communities across the Glamorgan area. But could I push just a little bit more on this issue that has been raised by the Stroke Association, which Angela has just raised as well, about the one-hour standard for access to brain scanning? They do recognise the significant progress that has been made. They also recognise the collaborative efforts that have led to that progress. But the one thing that they are calling for at this time is—and they say attaining the one-hour standard for access to brain scanning should be adopted as the overall aim of all acute stroke services across Wales. It should be factored into all existing service improvement programmes, and it should be incorporated into the forthcoming configuration of hyperacute stroke services. So, I do understand that there are different ways to push at to get the improvements that we seek, and, in fact, the way that we’ve done it, this collaborative approach working across all partners, is what has delivered the benefits. But they’re very fixed on this particular issue. Could I just, in closing, say if he wanted to discuss these issues more with the Stroke Association, and also not only the survivors but family and friends, he’s more than welcome any time to come along to take part with us, I think it’s 21 May this year, on Newbridge fields, where we have the largest Step Out for Stroke event in Wales, down there in Bridgend. It’s a tremendous testament, I have to say, to the work of the Stroke Association, but also to the survivors and their families, and it shows, as we should be saying, that there is indeed life after stroke.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the very particular comments and questions. I, too, enjoyed, and learnt a lot at the visit to Bryncethin. I learn an awful lot when going around meeting front-line staff, and I’m robustly confident that in the last two weeks I’ve now met more than 100 front-line staff within the ambulance service, and they’ve all been very honest with me on what they think has worked, and, indeed, on those areas where they think there’s further improvement to be made. It’s in everyone’s best interest that I’m not actually one of those paramedics now, because I certainly couldn’t do what they do. And seeing the new kit and equipment they’ve got for their learning as well was a fascinating exercise. But I’m happy to deal with your main point, which is the point about this one-hour CT scan on admission, in the follow-up to what Angela Burns has already said as well. I hope I can provide some direct reassurance to you and other Members that this will be part of what I expect to see measured in the snap audit. So, stroke services across England, Wales and Northern Ireland will be measured on their ability, I expect, to deliver against that in an open and upfront auditable measure, to understand where we are now and where we’re going as well. So, I do expect that to be reported as part of the improvement of expectancy as well. But I go back to this point about the reconfiguration of hyperacute services, which again you mentioned, and I would expect to see that as part of that configuration drive. Because there’s no point in saying we want to reconfigure services if we don’t actually meet the service standards that we have now, although we expect to see it delivered in the future, because the sort of levels we’d all wish to see, we won’t see immediately. The challenge is: how do we make sure we have staff in the right place and services in the right place to deliver the right care? So, yes I do expect that to be part of what the service plans to deliver against in reforming the way in which we deliver stroke services. I hope that’s helpful, not just for yourself and Angela Burns, but for other Members in this Chamber listening, and gives that reassurance about the expectations for any reconfiguration. On your final point, which was the invite—I haven’t checked my diary, but I’m sure a formal invite will come. Because I do recognise that there is life after stroke. And I recognise that some people pass away as well. I’ve seen recovery from stroke, and I’ve seen my own father pass away after his four strokes, so I recognise the very real issues that face families in this particular instance. So, I’ll be very happy to consider a formal invite, but I can’t give a definite commitment as, at this point, I couldn’t tell you exactly what I’m due to do on 21 May.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. Stroke, unfortunately, affects far too many people in Wales—the majority of which are preventable. Here in Wales, around 7,000 people have a stroke each year. One in eight strokes are fatal within the first 30 days, and one in four are fatal within the first year. Stroke kills twice as many women as breast cancer, and more men than prostrate and testicular cancer combined. I welcome the fact that there has been a reduction in the number of people dying from stroke in Wales. There have been vast improvements in the chain of survival, and the new improved stroke delivery plan will, I’m sure, continue this trend.The majority of us now know how to recognise the signs of stroke, which has added to the improved stroke outcomes. This means more and more people surviving stroke, but that brings with it other challenges. We now have nearly 65,000 people living with the long-term effects of stroke here in Wales. We have to ensure that we have adequate rehabilitation and long-term care plans in place to support stroke survivors. Stroke is the largest single cause of complex disability, and over half of all stroke survivors have a disability. With these points in mind, Cabinet Secretary, I just have a couple of questions to ask you. The new delivery plan prioritises the prevention of stroke. With nearly three-quarters of strokes being preventable, this is key to reducing the number of strokes in Wales. Cabinet Secretary, last year, the Stroke Association, in conjunction with community pharmacies, ran the Lower Your Risk of Stroke campaign, which encouraged people to get their blood pressure checked, to check their pulses for any irregularities, and to recognise the signs of a transient ischaemic attack. Does your Government have any plans to build upon this campaign and roll it out across all health settings in Wales? The delivery plan rightly recognises the importance of stroke research. Despite being a bigger killer than cancer, when it comes to medical research for stroke, the UK spends just one fifth of the amount we spend on cancer research. What plans does the Welsh Government have to increase the amount of funding for stroke research in Wales? And, finally, Cabinet Secretary, life after stroke can be challenging for many, and I welcome the recognition that we need greater collaboration between health, social care and the third sector to deliver rehabilitation and support. With around half of stroke survivors left with a disability, what additional funding will be available to provide for the ongoing support needed for stroke survivors?Once again, Cabinet Secretary, allow me to welcome the new stroke delivery plan, and I look forward to working with you to ensure we can deliver a reduction in the number of strokes, and improve outcomes for those blighted by this illness. Thank you.

Vaughan Gething AC: I thank you for the broad welcome for the work that is being undertaken, and, in particular, for the recognition of the significant number of strokes that are preventable. Depending on which particular piece of research you look at, 70 to 75 per cent of strokes are preventable because they are down to lifestyle choices and behaviours. I don’t think we’re ever going to get to a point where we’ll completely eradicate strokes, but we could still make a significant additional reduction in the number of strokes, building on the significant reduction we’ve already seen over a five-year period, with a reduction of between a fifth and a quarter in the number of people having a stroke here in Wales. But we still reckon that we have much more to do. On your point about research, I said earlier that there is a clear research priority going forward for the stroke implementation group. Not only is that a clear priority, but you will hear more from the Government in the coming weeks and months on how we’ll allocate specific research funds within Wales through Health and Care Research Wales. But there is a challenge here about the fact that some conditions have a higher profile and a higher ability to attract research funding in, and the priorities that are set outside, and we’re trying to make sure that a high-quality level of stroke research takes place here in Wales.On your point about rehab, again, there have been a number of questions, from Rhun ap Iorwerth and others, about how we make better use of the rehabilitation resources that we have, those staff that are already here, how we organise our services to deliver that, and ensuring that partnership goes across health, social care and the third sector, and the citizen as well. But, also, I’ve made clear that we’re investing in the future of those services, via the professional groups that we’re investing in, in the here and now. And the £95 million investment I announced in recent weeks really will be a part of delivering the workforce for the future, to deliver the health and care that we want to have for the future as well. So, this isn’t a Government that is saying we should simply stand still in this area. And, actually, at a time of austerity, when all of us confidently expect that we will have a real-terms cut in our budget in the years to come, that is a significant choice that we are making, to invest in the future of health and care professionals.And finally, on your point about the continual need to reinforce risk reduction, so that people can get help at an earlier stage and actually have an opportunity to take proactive action, that’s very clear, both in the statement and in the priorities of the group. It may be helpful, in terms of the commitment and the recognition of this Government, just to remind people that the Lower Your Risk of Stroke campaign was launched at the time indicated, between the Stroke Association and Community Pharmacy Wales, and it was launched in the Well Pharmacy, a stone’s-throw away from this National Assembly building, and it was launched by the then Deputy Minister for Health, at the time.

Suzy Davies AC: Can I also welcome the new plan, and wish you the very best of luck with that? I’ve got a few questions, beginning, actually, with where Huw Irranca-Davies left off, and the question of the use of scanners. I appreciate you wouldn’t be able to answer this question in the Chamber today, but I wonder if you’d consider making a statement at some point regarding the availability of scanners that don’t have enough people to operate them around the clock. We’re still getting occasional pieces of casework on this—about people turning up at various departments with suspected strokes, and other conditions, where scanners are available, but there’s no-one available to run the scanners. So, I wonder if you can perhaps give us a statement on that, in the future.But, relating specifically to this now, could I ask you about the stroke survivor six-month review, and the relationship between the NHS and third sector and care workers on this? Now, I’m presuming that, if somebody’s primarily cared for by a member of the family, like so many people are, those family members will be included in any discussions. But, when someone doesn’t have that advantage, and is primarily looked after by care workers, can you give us some indication about who you’d expect to be involved in those discussions? It may well be an individual social worker, if they’re disabled enough as a result of their stroke. But I’m just looking for ways to make sure that nobody is sort of accidentally left out of this useful procedure.Then I wanted to ask you about the specialist supported discharge service, to enable people with a stroke to receive their rehabilitation at home, or in a care home. I guess that I’m asking, ‘Why isn’t this happening now?’ Delayed transfers of care is a real issue, for a number of reasons, but one of them is that it can be very difficult to get an appropriate package of care together for the individual who’s trying to leave the acute setting. So, can you give us some indication of what’s missing from these delayed transfers of care packages for stroke victims, and perhaps give an indication about whether the ongoing monitoring of the rehabilitation activity that’s enjoyed by that individual will be the responsibility of the acute placement or the primary care team? Because it’s likely to have been designed by the rehabilitation professionals in the hospital setting, rather than in the primary care setting. So, it’s a question just to make sure that, again, somebody takes overall responsibility for that individual, rather than two people either agreeing they’re both responsible or neither taking responsibility.And then, finally—

Well, yes.

Suzy Davies AC: It is a final one. I’m really, really pleased that you picked up on the mental health vulnerabilities of stroke victims. And, to keep it short, I’m just curious to know how this plan fits in to ‘Together for Mental Health’, and, in particular, the additional funding that was introduced last year, and whether any of that is being earmarked for stroke victims, bearing in mind they’re very complex comorbidities. Thank you.

Vaughan Gething AC: I’ll deal with the last point first. We haven’t taken an approach of saying there are specific conditions where we’ll think, in particular in ‘Together for Mental Health’, about the mental health needs of that individual, because I think the challenge will be, we could easily parcel up money and activities in a way that would actually dissipate our resource, rather than add to it. The challenge, I think, is for a whole-service approach to seeing the whole person, and understanding—as I said in response to Rhun ap Iorwerth—not just seeing that person with a physical condition, but seeing them as a whole person, and what matters to them.And that’s why the work on patient reported experience measures really does matter, because that is asking that person about what matters to them, and how we then make sure that we can understand that and measure that in a way that is meaningful for them. So, even if their clinical outcomes are good, actually that may not mean that they are leaving, if you like, the part of the physical care service until they’re actually happy and contented, and that makes a really big difference in terms of their general well-being. So, it is something that we are giving real time and attention to, and that’s why I think, when we come back to 2018 and understanding what those measures are going to look like, we’ll have a lot more information on what could and should make a difference and think about the voice of the citizen in directing some of the care and what outcomes for them are important. So, there is a real and meaningful attempt to have that conversation in all parts of the service, and not just trying to parcel it up. I appreciate that that’s one approach, but I don’t think it would actually deliver the best value for us.On your first point about whether there are staff unavailable to undertake any scans, I would be really interested in specific examples of what that looks like and how that matches up against our ability to plan the workforce, the investments that we have made in who and where people are, and, indeed, the reconfiguration of the service. I would be very happy if you want to send me correspondence on the examples that you have.On primary and secondary, there is a constant struggle in understanding who actually has responsibility, but that’s not been brought to me by anyone in the Stroke Association saying that they’re concerned, for example, that there isn’t an understanding of responsibility, either who has the responsibility for rehab or for understanding who will actually undertake the reviews of patients. Their concern has more broadly been about whether we’ve got the right numbers of people working in the right teams as opposed to whether it’s primary or secondary care-led at that point.On some of your points about advocacy, where people don’t have family members to accompany them when some reviews take place, again, I’m interested if you have specific examples of gaps that you identify rather than the more generalised. There could be. I’d be interested in what does that mean and look like now, and I’d be very happy to deal properly with that. I know that the cross-party group is due to meet in a few weeks’ time. I don’t think I can attend the first meeting, but I expect that there will be a number of points from that group that it might be helpful to collate and send to me, and I can hopefully respond in a helpful and constructive way to the comments that are made. But, broadly, on delayed transfers of care, we have a good record. We have a reducing number of delayed transfers of care, and there is continuing ministerial oversight and expectation for further improvement. In any areas where we see further gaps that still exist, I want to understand why those are there and what we can expect our whole health and care system to do about them. So, I would be very happy to receive that correspondence and then to look at some of the details of what we can do to see further improvement in stroke services across Wales.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

5. 4. Debate: The Second Supplementary Budget 2016-17

Item 4 on today’s agenda is a debate on the second supplementary budget, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government to move the motion. Mark Drakeford.

Motion NDM6236 Jane HuttTo propose that the Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 20.30, approves the Second Supplementary Budget for the financial year 2016-17 laid in the Table Office and emailed to Assembly Members on Tuesday, 7 February 2017.

Motion moved.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. The second supplementary budget is a standard part of the regular financial procedure. It gives us a final chance to adapt our budgetary proposals for this financial year, which were approved by this Assembly in the first supplementary budget last July. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the Finance Committee for its scrutiny work on this second supplementary budget. I will be responding to the Chair in due time on the specific recommendations made in that report.

The Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Mark Drakeford AC: This budget is, foremost, an opportunity to put in place the changes that are required as a part of mid-year financial management. It aligns the resources available with the Government’s priorities, and most of the changes to proposals are administrative. This year, the second supplementary budget also includes a number of key allocations from reserves. The provision of stability for our public services is one of the main priorities of this Government. Therefore, this budget includes worth £168.9 million of allocations of revenue from the reserves of the Welsh Government to support national health services in Wales.Mae’r swm hwn yn cynnwys y £50 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd, Llesiant a Chwaraeon ym mis Tachwedd i fynd i'r afael â phwysau'r gaeaf a chynnal a gwella perfformiad dros gyfnod y gaeaf.Mae hefyd yn cynnwys pecyn cyllido ychwanegol o £102.9 miliwn i gefnogi'r GIG yng Nghymru.Bydd hyn yn helpu i fynd i'r afael â'r diffygion a ragwelir mewn dau fwrdd iechyd lleol a’r diffyg incwm a amcangyfrifir o'r cynllun rheoleiddio prisiau fferyllol.Lywydd, mae’r gyllideb atodol hon hefyd yn adlewyrchu'r dyraniadau a wnaed i sicrhau cynnydd cynnar yn erbyn ein rhaglen 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen'.Ym mis Tachwedd 2016, cyhoeddwyd cyllid cyfalaf ychwanegol o £30 miliwn gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gymunedau a Phlant i gefnogi ein hymrwymiad i ddarparu 20,000 o gartrefi newydd fforddiadwy ledled Cymru.Bydd hyn yn cynnwys cefnogaeth barhaus ar gyfer adeiladu drwy gynlluniau megis y grant tai cymdeithasol a Chymorth i Brynu.Ym mis Ionawr eleni, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru gyllid o £16 miliwn i gefnogi lansiad y gronfa triniaethau newydd i alluogi pobl yng Nghymru i gael gafael ar driniaethau newydd ac arloesol yn gyflym.Mae £20 miliwn ychwanegol o gyllid refeniw yn mynd i Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ac yn cael ei ffurfioli yn y gyllideb hon i ymateb i bwysau ariannol nawr ac yn y dyfodol, gan gynnwys gweithredu argymhellion adroddiad Diamond.Mae’r ail gyllideb atodol hon yn cynyddu cyllid i ddatblygu economi Cymru a’n seilwaith trafnidiaeth: mae cyfalaf o £47 miliwn wedi'i ddyrannu i gefnogi’r gwaith o adeiladu a chynnal y rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd yng Nghymru, gyda £8.5 miliwn arall o gyllid refeniw i sefydlu Trafnidiaeth Cymru i baratoi ar gyfer cyfrifoldebau rhyddfreintiau.Mae'r gyllideb atodol hon hefyd yn cyfochri buddsoddiad ychwanegol o £33.4 miliwn mewn grantiau cyfalaf a benthyciadau i gyflawni blaenoriaethau datblygu economaidd, gan gefnogi swyddi cynaliadwy a thwf ar hyd a lled y wlad.Lywydd, gan fod cyllidebau atodol yn bennaf yn weinyddol eu natur, mae'r gyllideb hon yn manylu ar yr amrywiol addasiadau eraill sydd i'w gwneud i'n cyllidebau yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon, gan gynnwys unrhyw newidiadau i floc Cymru sy'n deillio o benderfyniadau Llywodraeth y DU, diwygiadau i ragolygon y gwariant a reolir yn flynyddol, a throsglwyddiadau eraill rhwng ac o fewn portffolios gweinidogion.Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid unwaith eto am graffu ar y gyllideb atodol hon a gofynnaf i'r Aelodau ei chefnogi y prynhawn yma.

I call on the Chair of the Finance Committee, Simon Thomas.

Simon Thomas AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I speak, of course, on behalf of the Finance Committee, which has reported on the supplementary budget, and the full report and the recommendations are available to Members. I want to focus on four areas here where the Finance Committee were looking for more information or more work by the Government. First of all, you will remember, I hope, that I have spoken before in the debate on the draft budget about the need for the Government to do more to show how budget allocations are influenced by the well-being of future generations Act. While we realise, of course, and accept that this is a supplementary budget, we had hoped to have seen more evidence of how that Act had influenced decision making in relation to internal allocations following the last budget. In the committee meeting, the Cabinet Secretary listed a number of allocations as evidence of how the spending meets the well-being goals, and we were grateful that he had come ready and prepared to do that. However, we felt that this list seemed to be an artificial list of allocations, in a way, which just so happened to meet the requirements of the Act, as opposed to evidence of this Act being at the forefront of the decisions being made by the Welsh Government. As we reported on the last draft budget, we felt that there is a need to improve on this issue of how the Act influences allocations, and we will be returning to this in due course. Secondly, in the field of health, social care and winter pressures, we noted in our report that more than 70 per cent of the additional fiscal revenue allocations made in this supplementary budget go to the health, well-being and sport portfolio, namely £75.9 million to help address the forecast overspends by health boards, and £50 million to address winter pressures.While the additional funding being allocated for winter pressures is to be welcomed, we are concerned that these seasonal variations are not being planned for in the three-year planning process. Therefore, it’s a disappointment to the committee that the Welsh Government hasn’t taken advantage of the opportunity in the National Health Service Finance (Wales) Act 2014 to ensure that the health boards plan better over a period of three years.We welcome, nevertheless, the Cabinet Secretary’s commitment to investigate whether there are structural issues behind the overspending at some health boards, but we remain concerned that, should the Welsh Government continue to bail out health boards that overspend, although paying through departmental expenditure limits rather than directly, the health boards won’t have any incentive to implement stringent spending policies to ensure that they remain within budget.The third area that we wanted to report on was the allocation in the supplementary budget of £20 million to HEFCW. The purpose of this allocation was to ameliorate the pressures connected to the implementation of the Diamond report recommendations, and we believe that further scrutiny of higher education funding is needed, including monitoring the implementation of the Diamond review recommendations. I’ll be writing to the Children, Young People and Education Committee to ensure this is considered, and, if it’s not appropriate for that committee to consider, it’s likely the Finance Committee will want to do follow-up work on the work that our predecessor committee looked at in the fourth Assembly. The final area of recommendations by the Finance Committee is economy and infrastructure. We noted that revenue allocations to this portfolio, excluding non-cash changes, have increased by nearly £40 million, and capital allocations have increased by more than £45 million. We concluded that the documentation accompanying the supplementary budget could have provided more transparency around some of those allocations, particularly the £30.8 million increase in the sectors action in respect of economic development priorities and the £22 million in capital funding provided for the M4 route development. We were surprised by the allocation of funds for the M4 route development, particularly as this funding is primarily for a public inquiry. We therefore recommend that future budget documentation provides much more detail and much more transparency about the purpose of the allocations. We also noted the additional capital loan funding for Cardiff Airport, and we’ve recommended that the Welsh Government commit to providing a detailed profile of funding provided to Cardiff Airport and details of when outstanding debt is due to be repaid. Thank you very much.

Before I call on the next speaker, Members will be aware that there is a high-pitched tone in the Chamber at the moment. We are looking into the issue and, if required, I will adjourn the session at the end of this debate, but we will continue for the moment. Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: First of all, I would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement and also thank the Chair of the Finance Committee for sharing his committee’s comments on the second supplementary budget for this current financial year. Generally speaking, I would endorse the main recommendations made by the committee, outlined by my colleague Simon Thomas, and specifically emphasise the need to tackle the lack of information and transparency, which is becoming a regular theme as we have these debates.We are grateful, of course, to the Cabinet Secretary for the explanatory notes that he provided with the supplementary budget—some 50 pages. But surely there is still room for improvement. The lack of transparency, as we have heard, is very clear, for example, in issues related to the health budget. The committee has drawn attention to this in the past, and particularly to how the budget is divided between primary, secondary, and social care, and so on. There's a transfer, for example, in this supplementary budget of over £15 million from the support mental health policies and legislation action to that huge beast of an action that is the core expenditure on the national health service, which is a sum of over £6.2 billion. Now, the general concern is that this funding will be actually swallowed up by that core expenditure and be very difficult to monitor in future. Therefore, I would urge the Cabinet Secretary once again to provide greater transparency in future in terms of these allocations generally and certainly within the health budget.There is mention in the supplementary budget of additional allocations from the invest-to-save fund, with reference to savings of £3.4 million for NRW, £0.5 million for numeracy and literacy, for example, as well as repayments into the fund—that is, the invest-to-save fund; that’s what we’re talking about here. Now, once again, there aren’t many details available as to the sums borrowed and repaid, or about the timetabling of those repayments under this programme.If we are going to do our proper work in carrying out proper scrutiny of the efficiency of this fund then we need this information to be clearly set out. An annual report, as suggested by the committee, would be a very good idea. Generally speaking, the concern that we have—and it is encapsulated in this motion for the supplementary budget—is that there’s a lack of transparency once again. That doesn’t allow us, therefore, to hold the Government to account. Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, gan gyfeirio at brif grŵp gwariant yr economi a’r seilwaith—ac mae gan hwnnw un o'r trosglwyddiadau cyfalaf mwyaf, tua £80.6  miliwn, er enghraifft—y broblem yn y fan honno, ac mae'n thema a oedd wrth wraidd araith ddiweddar fy nghyfaill, arweinydd Plaid Cymru yng nghynhadledd Plaid Cymru, yw: sut allwn ni mewn gwirionedd weld bod buddsoddiad yn cael ei ddosbarthu’n deg ar draws Cymru, wyddoch chi, ymagwedd Cymru gyfan i fuddsoddiad y Llywodraeth, ar wyneb y gyllideb atodol hon?Mae'n amhosibl dod i'r casgliad hwnnw ar sail y wybodaeth a gawn, heblaw i ddweud, mewn gwirionedd, o’r prosiectau a nodwyd yn ddaearyddol, bod dros 95 y cant ohonynt yng Nghaerdydd a’r de-ddwyrain.Rydym wedi cael cyfeiriad eisoes at y cyllid paratoadol ychwanegol braidd yn rhyfedd ar gyfer prosiect yr M4 yn y de-ddwyrain, a chyfeiriad at Faes Awyr Caerdydd.Mae cyfeiriad yn yr wybodaeth atodol at gronfeydd wrth gefn yn cael eu dal yn ôl ar gyfer bargen dinas Caerdydd.Ceir ffordd gyswllt dwyrain y bae, y ganolfan gynadledda ryngwladol yng Nghasnewydd, a gwaith Blaenau'r Cymoedd i fyny ym Mrynmawr.Felly, yr unig eithriad y tu allan i’r de-ddwyrain a Chaerdydd mewn gwirionedd yw £0.5 miliwn i ActionAid yn Abertawe, a £4 miliwn wedi’i rannu ar draws safleoedd Tata ledled Cymru.Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud wrth Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet nad yw hynny'n dderbyniol.Mae'n ddigon posibl, yn afloywder y gyllideb atodol, bod prosiectau yn y gogledd ac yn y canolbarth ac yn y gorllewin ac ym Mro Morgannwg nad ydym yn gwybod amdanynt, ond dyna'r pwynt: nid ydym yn gwybod amdanyn nhw, nid oes modd i ni wybod amdanyn nhw, ar sail y wybodaeth sydd gennym, ac, am y ddau reswm hynny—y diffyg tryloywder a’r diffyg tegwch amlwg o ran buddsoddiad y Llywodraeth ar draws Cymru—byddwn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y gyllideb atodol hon.

Nick Ramsay AC: Can I welcome today’s debate on the supplementary budget? It’s probably not the budget that is getting the most press coverage in the world—at least in the UK—this week. Welsh Conservatives recognise that this budget does contain an in-year management process aimed at aligning resources with priorities—that rather difficult process, as the Cabinet Secretary referred to it in his sessions with the Finance Committee. We also recognise the increases resulting from increased Government spending and other transfers that have been factored in. Can I also concur with the sentiments of the Chair of the Finance Committee? We had a number of useful sessions in committee looking at this and identifying many of the areas that the Chair alluded to, particularly that referred to by recommendation 1, which questions the effectiveness of the implementation of the future generations Bill. I think there is a broader question here about the legislation that the Assembly passes, and whether it does actually achieve what it sets out to do on the ground. Many of the voices concerned—. Many of the concerns voiced, I should say, at the time of the passing of the Bill seem to be coming to fruition. We do need the Welsh Government to reapply itself to making sure that this legislation is properly embedded within the decision-making culture of the Welsh Government. It shouldn’t just be an add-on; it should be there at every level, and it should be perceived to be so. I’ll leave recommendation 2 on the invest-to-save fund to my colleague Mike Hedges—I don’t know this for a fact, but I’m sure he’s going to say something about it; yes, I can tell by his smile that he is—other than to say that I do think that invest-to-save has proved a good scheme in the past and delivers results. Of greater concern, I think, and this does follow on from some of the comments made by Adam Price, is the issue of transparency. We return to this again and again, in the subject of budget debates but also in other areas that we debate here. It’s alluded to in recommendation 3, specifically in this case the lack of transparency over the funding allocated in the health, well-being and sport portfolio, and the reasons for funding decisions that often seem to be more reactionary and linked to dealing with problems as they emerge rather than addressing the root of these problems.The Welsh Government can, and probably will, argue that this is a supplementary budget—a second supplementary budget—so maybe we shouldn’t be expecting too much on this front today. But, it is a budget nonetheless and it does make some key changes to the situation that we had before. So, we do look for changes to be well supported and well evidenced, and we certainly look in future, as the Finance Committee has said, for these changes to be tracked and to be evident in future budget-setting processes. We’ve been calling for this for a very long time, and we do really want to see solid, robust evidence for this as we move forward.Turning to the roads section of the Finance Committee report, again Adam Price mentioned the £15 million for the eastern bay link road. As I’ve pointed out in previous budgets, this is of course not for the whole eastern bay link road—this is for one part of one section of the link road that will terminate at the roundabout to nowhere, as it’s known, on Rover Way. I’ve had issues with this in the past—I still do. I support the road as a whole, but I do question whether there is going to be value for money delivered from delivering one section of that road in the short term. There is the potential for some major congestion problems being moved elsewhere in Cardiff without any future plans for continuation of the building of the rest of that road.As for the £22 million for the M4 route development, the saga continues there, doesn’t it? The committee was concerned that there was insufficient information in the budget about this £22 million. To be fair, the Cabinet Secretary, in the evidence session, did give more details, but that wasn’t there at the start. I understand that this money is there to provide support for more work for the public inquiry and to deal with a higher than expected number of objections. I’m not quite sure why it was expected that there would be a lower number of objections, because it isn’t the least controversial scheme in the world. I think that that could have been factored in at the start.As I say, in conclusion, Presiding Officer, I hope that future budgets can see improved transparency—the holy grail for the Finance Committee. As I said at the start, the Welsh Conservatives recognise the rationale behind the decisions made in this second supplementary budget and the transfers of funding involved. However, because we do have issues with transparency and we do have issues with the original budget on which the two supplementary budgets have been based, we cannot support this supplementary budget.

Mark Reckless AC: I thank Nick Ramsay for his contribution. The conclusion ‘we cannot support’ I thought was rather Delphic, since it leaves two possible interpretations. The situation we find on this budget is that UKIP were not part of the Assembly at the time that the initial budget was passed for this year. A number of the changes from head-to-head or main expenditure groups are, I think, difficult to object to. I think we have a few particular issues. I concur with what the Chair of the Finance Committee said about the well-being of future generations Act. I must compliment the Cabinet Secretary, as he was at least well prepared, I think, for our questioning on that area as to how the well-being of future generations Act had influenced the formation of the supplementary budget. He told us about the £10 million for the Heads of the Valleys road—that was all about a more prosperous Wales—and then £16 million for the new treatment fund—that was all about a healthier Wales. So, congratulations on that, but I think we were still unconvinced as to the extent to which this Act really was drilling down and determining Government action to the extent that its plaudits would claim.We had a very interesting, I felt, discussion at committee with the Cabinet Secretary about overruns within spending within the health MEG, and I think he made a compelling case as to why it was appropriate to fund those overfunds at the health MEG overall level. But, he didn’t want to increase the budget to recognise those overspends because that would reduce the incentive for appropriate spending control in future, but also because those overruns, I think, were particularly in areas that he thought on a needs basis were getting a higher degree of allocation. Certainly, if we were looking at income and health outcomes on a formula, my own area of south-east Wales perhaps had relatively less allocation before, and to recognise these overspends elsewhere would set that in stone, which we agreed was not an appropriate way forward. The work on the infrastructure side—the £15 million for the eastern bay relief road—at least I think it is an improvement that we can then use Rover Way to get to that roundabout, but can the Cabinet Secretary say anything about when he proposes dualling, to complete what would in effect be a ring road for Cardiff, and make that £15 million itself much more productive in terms of its spending?My major concerns—and I’ll be very interested in what the Cabinet Secretary says in response—again relate to the higher education funding settlement. In light of the evidence the Cabinet Secretary gave, the Finance Committee stated:‘The planned technical transfer of £21.1 million from HEFCW’s budget to the budget line from which the tuition fee grant is now paid, was not implemented at the time.’By which we meant in the final budget. Then, we said: ‘This Supplementary Budget reinstates this intended £21.1 million transfer’. Is it correct that this a technical transfer, or is the Cabinet Secretary for Education right in what she said to the Children, Young People and Education Committee? She said: ‘I issued a revised remit letter to HEFCW on 17 October, making clear that the latest information from the Student Loans Company suggests expenditure on the TFG will be in excess of original estimates of £257.6m for 2016-17. We will therefore action the transfer of £21.1m from HEFCW to Welsh Government in the 2nd supplementary budget partly to cover the additional expenditure.’So, is that transfer a technical matter, or is it being driven by the need to fund that cost overrun? Could the Cabinet Secretary also clarify what he describes as being formalised in this budget, which we referred to in the committee as an additional allocation of £20 million for HEFCW for a suite of measures to deal with current and future financial pressures relating to the implementation of the Diamond report recommendation? I mean, isn’t the Diamond review because we recognise that it was unsustainable to maintain the tuition fee grant as it was, and the costs of that were exploding, and that was going to be taking away from elsewhere in the Welsh budget? Why is it that, despite the Diamond review, we are still having the pressures, and the implementation of the Diamond review is yet another reason to find yet more money to put into this budget? Is the priority of his Government really to put as much money as possible into handing out student grants, rather than putting it into areas of the economy and infrastructure, and rather than putting it into the health service? It’s welcome that they’re no longer going on a means-tested basis to families earning £81,000, but still, does he really have the money, and is it really his priority to deprive other areas of spending so as to concentrate spending on this area, to such a very significant extent?

Mike Hedges AC: I speak in support of the second supplementary budget, but there are three points that I want to raise. First, on the health budget, according to the evidence received by the Finance Committee—and I’ll just quote from the report—‘The Supplementary Budget includes £180 million fiscal, or cash, revenue, £4 million non-cash revenue and £3 million capital to the Health, Well-being and Sport portfolio. Of the additional fiscal revenue allocations made to departments, 71.5% go to this portfolio.’It’s 71.5 per cent when the budget is pushing 50 per cent, so if it only had it pro rata it would have been running at around about 50 per cent, rather than 71.5 per cent. ‘This includes £75.9m to help address forecast overspends by health boards (£68.4m announced in November and a further £7.5m allocated in January).’That came as a surprise. My experience of health boards and the old hospital boards was that that they overspent in the first quarter—massively—overspent slightly in the second quarter, and then started bringing things back in the third and fourth quarter. What we’ve actually seen here is continuation of an overspend in the third quarter, which I find surprising, disappointing and problematic.‘£50m to address winter pressures and to sustain and improve performance during winter period; £27m to address the estimated shortfall of income from the Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme; £16m to support the launch of the new Treatment Fund; £1m for the air ambulance service.’‘Funding for winter pressures has been included in second supplementary budgets in recent years; £50 million in 2016-17; £45 million in 2015-16 and £40 million in 2014-15.’I’m open to correction by others, but it’s not been a particularly cold winter, and I’ve seen no evidence of a major outbreak of influenza, so I don’t understand why additional money for winter pressures needs to be in the supplementary budget. Either it’s needed each year, and should be in the base budget, or it is not needed. Can I turn to committee recommendation 1, that‘the Welsh Government review whether there are structural factors, which are not currently considered in health board allocation, that impact on health boards’ ability to deliver services within their resource allocations. The Welsh Government should implement any changes to funding allocations’?If two health boards need additional money each year, then either the formula allocating the finance is wrong and is leaving them underfunded—meaning they have to seek additional funding each year—or they are not managing their resources effectively, or a combination of the two. I am very, very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance said at the Finance Committee that‘he was working with the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport to establish whether there were issues behind the overspends which were out of the hands of the health boards involved.’But we can’t keep on increasing the percentage of the money we spend on health—until we get to 100 per cent; at that time, we have to stop. But there are an awful lot of other services as well. I’m going to be boring now, because I say this all the time: we should be spending more money on trying to stop people being ill in the first place, improving people’s health, trying to cut down on type 2 diabetes by making people lose weight and not end up in that situation, trying to get people more active so they tend not to have the problems that come with inactivity. And most importantly of all—I was going to quote David Melding for something he said several years ago, before I was a Member here—the most important thing that can be done is to stop people smoking. And if we can do more to stop people smoking, then we can deal with some of the health problems. The other thing is that—and I’ve said this many times before, but I’m going to say it again—can we ensure that doctors do not undertake interventions that either do harm or do no good?Briefly, on two other points: my support for invest-to-save is well known, and I thank Nick Ramsay for being my lead-in on this, but an income and expenditure sheet would be very helpful. I understand some invest-to-save schemes will take longer to pay back than we expect. That’s inevitable, and if they didn’t, we wouldn’t be using the scheme effectively because we’d only be playing safe. We have a group of reasonable people on the Finance Committee, and I think that if we see that some of them take five years rather than three years, but the intention was there, then we’re not going to be criticising and attacking the Government for doing something if it’s doing good. It also means that people can identify those that aren’t worth copying into other areas. Now, I think the danger is that if we don’t identify those which take a little longer to pay back, people may decide to copy those where it’s not advantageous. Finally, there are a number of changes in the supplementary budget in relation to the funding of student loans. The Welsh Government uses a complex modelling system to estimate the cost of providing student loans and the present value of the current loan book. My concern is—and it’s not for this supplementary budget, but it’s sort of mentioned for the Government—after 30 years from the beginning of the loan system, loans will start being written off. Is there any risk being faced by the Welsh Government when we approach the first student loan write-offs? Who will pick up the cost? After we go to the time of 30 years from when they went up to £9,000, it’s going to be even worse. So, it’s just a question really—not for now, but perhaps for the future. What’s going to happen with the student loans as they become non-paid?

Jenny Rathbone AC: I completely agree with Mike Hedges about spending more money on preventing people getting ill in the first place. I just wanted to pick up some points that were made about the eastern bay relief road, because there’s no point in building a road and then only three quarters completing it. Having done the link road, we just need to complete it, and this small sum of money, relatively, to the overall cost, will actually—. You say that there’s nothing happening in Rover Way; actually it does link it, then, up to the A48, and I’m hoping it will then take a lot of traffic away from the very busy Newport Road—particularly the residential end of it.

Nick Ramsay AC: Thanks for giving way. I think the key word you used there, Jenny, was ‘hoping’, and yes, ultimately we would hope that a lot of traffic would be taken from the centre, but my point is: until there are plans to build that second part of the eastern bay link, the first part of the eastern bay link is threatening to make things far worse for Rover Way.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Having made this connection, I think that will, then, complete it, but I haven’t looked at the detail recently. Frankly, if it doesn’t deviate the road, we’ll have to take other measures to ensure it does. I just wanted to use this opportunity to speak about the childcare offer in ‘Taking Wales Forward’ and look at the amount of money that’s been allocated so far to delivering that pledge. There’s £10 million this year in the communities and children’s budget to pilot the childcare pledge for 30 hours a week for 48 weeks a year, which is a very ambitious pledge, which I welcome greatly. There’s a further £20 million allocated in the education budget for the following year to invest in childcare settings alongside the twenty-first century schools programme. I note that Carl Sargeant has told the children and young people’s committee, back in November, that the current best estimate of the annual cost of delivering the childcare pledge overall is £100 million. So, 30 hours of free early education and childcare to the working parents of three and four-year olds—obviously, all those children are entitled to 10 hours of nursery education from the term after their third birthday. So, the challenge is providing the other 20 hours of childcare, plus 30 hours during school holidays. Early years provision in Wales has focused on the developmental needs of young children to date. Both the foundation phase and Flying Start are founded on evidence of what makes the greatest impact on children’s life chances, but they’re costly strategies. A Flying Start childcare place in Wales costs £11.32 compared to £5.62 an hour that a childcare provider in England receives for a deprived childcare place. In Cardiff, there are particular challenges in meeting this very exciting pledge. We have 26 primary schools with nursery provision at the moment, but simply extending the hours children are in school to 30 isn’t possible because 3,300 places are mainly delivered in two cohorts. So, you have the morning nursery and the afternoon nursery, all in the same room. So, other solutions are going to have to be found and, in any case, inner-city schools have little spare capacity to expand because they’re simply hedged in by other buildings. There are some good examples of wraparound care in my constituency at Ysgol y Berllan Deg, which has a private bilingual nursery at the bottom of the garden, and at Roath Park Primary School, which has a private nursery just around the corner. In both cases, they’re close enough to school for three-year-olds to walk over there for their nursery entitlement. These are good examples of public-private collaboration, but other parts of my constituency are unlikely to see market solutions to deliver this pledge. One such area is the Pentwyn ward, which is the largest housing estate in Wales. The only childcare offer at the moment is from childminders. I recently visited the excellent Ely children’s centre, which is in the Cabinet Secretary’s constituency, which provides outstanding nursery education and childcare as well as professional leadership for other early years providers. But it’s the only children’s centre in the whole of Cardiff: the fastest-growing city in the UK and the largest in Wales. My own view is there’s going to be a need for a lot more children centres like Ely if the 30-hours pledge is going to be delivered to all working parents, not just the ones in the better-off areas where the market will provide. There’s some evidence of that from the English experience. So, I think this is an issue that we need to consider further when we’re discussing the budget in future years.

I now call on the Cabinet Secretary to respond to the debate.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, thank you, Llywydd. A gaf i ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Simon Thomas am yr hyn a ddywedodd ar ran y Pwyllgor Cyllid?Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb yn fanwl i'r argymhellion y mae’r Pwyllgor Cyllid wedi eu gwneud.Rwyf am wneud fy ngorau i fod mor adeiladol â phosibl a rhoi gymaint o wybodaeth ag y bo modd wrth wneud hynny.Gallwn, fodd bynnag, gysylltu fy hun am eiliad â'r pwynt a wnaed gan Nick Ramsay Ddelffig, pan ddywedodd efallai nad dod i gasgliadau cyffredinol o’r gyllideb atodol yw’r dull gweithredu mwyaf synhwyrol.Ac yn yr areithiau yr ydym wedi eu clywed y prynhawn yma, mae rhai ymdrechion glew i greu strwythurau ehangach mawr iawn ar sylfeini cul yr hyn sydd, wedi'r cyfan, yn rhan safonol dechnegol o'r broses rheoli ariannol.Rwyf wedi cytuno yn flaenorol â'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am y ffaith bod yn rhaid gwneud mwy i ddefnyddio Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 yn y ffordd yr ydym yn llunio’r pethau hyn. Deuthum i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid gyda’r hyn yr wyf yn credu oedd yn ymgais wirioneddol i geisio dangos rhai o'r ffyrdd y mae'r penderfyniadau a wnaed yn y gyllideb atodol yn adlewyrchu cyngor y Ddeddf honno. Ond nid yw cyllideb atodol byth am fod yr ateb cyflawn i Ddeddf o’r fath, ac edrychaf ymlaen at wneud mwy ar hynny yn y dyfodol.Cyn belled ag y mae buddsoddi i arbed yn y cwestiwn, mae'r cynllun buddsoddi i arbed eisoes yn cyhoeddi adroddiad blynyddol bob blwyddyn am ei waith, ac roedd fy rhagflaenydd, Jane Hutt, wedi cyflwyno i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid diwethaf yr union beth y gofynnodd Mike Hedges amdano o ran datganiad incwm a gwariant, ac os byddai’n ddefnyddiol, yr wyf yn fodlon diweddaru hynny ar gyfer y Pwyllgor Cyllid presennol.A gaf i roi cynnig ar ateb rhai o'r pwyntiau a godwyd gan Mark Reckless, yn enwedig o ran y MEG addysg?Cyn belled ag y bo refeniw yn y cwestiwn, mae’r gyllideb atodol hon yn cynnwys tri phrif ychwanegiad at yr adnoddau addysg: £3.5 miliwn i gyfrannu at bwysau cyllid myfyrwyr, a hynny oherwydd bod gennym amddiffyniad carfan ar gyfer myfyrwyr yn y system bresennol wrth i ni symud i Diamond; £4.47 miliwn fel blaendal ar ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth hon o £100 miliwn i godi safonau ysgolion yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad hwn; ac yna £20 miliwn ar gyfer Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ar gyfer y pedwar diben a grybwyllais gerbron y Pwyllgor Cyllid pan oeddwn i ger ei fron.

Mark Reckless AC: Will the Cabinet Secretary give way?

Mark Drakeford AC: Of course.

Mark Reckless AC: So, is the £21.1 million a technical reclassification, or is it to pay for an overshoot in the budget?

Mark Drakeford AC: I did hear the Member make that point in his contribution, Llywydd. I want to make sure I give him the most accurate answer to his question, so I will reply to him separately to today’s debate to make sure that he has the most accurate account in response to his inquiry. Can I say generally in relation to health that this Government makes no apology whatsoever for using opportunities that come our way to invest further in the health service? That has always been our priority; it will continue to be our priority. Of course I agree with Mike Hedges’s point that prevention would always be better than cure, but Members here have heard a statement this afternoon on stroke services. No Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for health will ever be in a position to say to somebody who has suffered a stroke already and who needs treatment, ‘I’m sorry, you’re not going to get that treatment because I’ve diverted money to prevent somebody else suffering in this way in the future.’ It’s simply not possible to operate in that way. You have to somehow manage to deal with the very real needs of today while trying our best to find ways of investing so that we can prevent pressures in the future. Llywydd, can I end by turning to what I thought was an extraordinarily ill-judged contribution from Adam Price? He’ll be happy to know that Plaid Cymru’s message to the people of Cardiff that the Assembly Government does too much for them and that too much money is spent in Cardiff is already well known to—. [Interruption.] No, I won’t. No, no. He can listen to me for once. I’m not giving way. I’m not giving way, Llywydd.

The Cabinet Secretary is not giving way.

Mark Drakeford AC: I’m not giving way. He can listen for a moment. He’ll be pleased to know that my constituents have already heard that message loud and clear from his party. As far as they are concerned, this Welsh Government spends too much on them, and money should be taken away from them to be spent elsewhere. But more extraordinarily still, Llywydd—far more extraordinarily still—will be the fact that he intends to cast his vote this afternoon to deny the public who live in his constituency—and, indeed, the constituencies of almost every other Plaid Cymru Member I can see—the help that this supplementary budget would give them: the money that this budget is providing for Hywel Dda Local Health Board; the money that this budget will provide to Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board; the money that makes it possible for services to go on being provided—[Interruption.] I’ve already told him I’m not giving way. So, the money that this supplementary budget will provide to people who live in his constituency—[Interruption.]—and he will vote today to deny them that help. It was an extraordinarily ill-judged contribution. [Interruption.] I do hope that other Members will not feel obliged to follow him in that way. It is through our careful financial management that we have been able to earmark reserves. We will carry those forward where we can to the coming financial year. We’ve deployed them in this financial year to support our public services—they will support key priorities, they will provide some additional contingency. Passing this supplementary budget is necessary to make sure that the things that people across Wales rely on every day go on being able to—

Adam Price AC: A point of order, Llywydd—

There is no point of order. Cabinet Secretary, carry on. The Cabinet Secretary has the floor.

Mark Drakeford AC: For that reason, I hope that Members will be willing to support it this afternoon. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. I will defer voting therefore until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

6. 5. Debate: The Estyn Annual Report 2015-16

The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Paul Davies, and amendment 4 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

The next item is the debate on the annual Estyn report. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to move the motion—Kirsty Williams.

Motion NDM6246 Jane Hutt To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:Notes the annual report for 2015-16 of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Education and Training in Wales.

Motion moved.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I’d like to open this debate today by thanking Meilyr Rowlands for his second annual report as the chief inspector of education and training in Wales. As well as providing evidence on performance and standards, the chief inspector’s report will inform policy development and help us drive improvements in our education system. The report is clear that we are making progress in some areas, however many challenges still remain.As Estyn reports, further improvement is required. I welcome the inspector’s findings that show that there has been continued progress with early years provision, with literacy and numeracy, with children’s behaviour and attendance and that the performance of disadvantaged learners is also improving. The report is right to highlight that the quality of teaching is the biggest influence of how well learners learn and discusses what is required for improving teaching. That is, better professional learning and staff development, and I couldn’t agree more with the chief inspector. Teachers and leaders in Wales share an individual, professional and national mission to help all of our children succeed.I have been clear that I believe that teachers should be lifelong students themselves, with an ongoing commitment to their professional growth, learning from one another, continuously improving and studying and implementing best practice. To support this, we’re working towards ensuring a consistent all-Wales approach to professional learning, delivered on a regional basis. This will ensure that all practitioners, including support staff and further education practitioners, are able to develop the skills in pedagogy and leadership to realise the requirements of our new curriculum. The introduction of revised professional standards for teachers and leaders is an important part of that work. My officials have been working closely with the profession and key stakeholders to develop and test new professional standards that will inspire, challenge and support every practitioner from initial training through to school leadership. Many schools have already made substantial progress in supporting peer-to-peer learning. The revised professional standards will reflect that commitment to continuous improvement and collaboration by supporting practitioners to strive for sustained excellent practice at every level and every step of their career. Professional standards must also be in step with our reform of initial teacher education and the new curriculum. They will set the bar for entering into the profession and support practitioners to ensure that they have the skills, knowledge and behaviours necessary to meet the challenges of the revised curriculum and to develop leadership capacity at all levels. The report summarises the Programme for International Student Assessment 2015 results for Wales. It is of course a source of great disappointment to me that Wales’s results were again lower than that of the three other UK nations and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development average. However, what makes better reading is the OECD report that was published just last month and debated in this Chamber just last week. As you know, Presiding Officer, on becoming Cabinet Secretary, I invited the OECD to come to Wales to challenge and test our reforms and they have concluded that we are making progress and that we have the right long-term vision in place to keep improving. So, it is my job to keep that momentum going and to accelerate it where necessary. I will continue to be guided by international best practice and hard evidence. The Estyn report will play a key role in highlighting areas in need of improvement and supporting the implementation of our wide-reaching reform. Our focus must continue to be making sure that we properly implement our national mission of education reform to drive up standards and help every learner, regardless of their background, to fulfil their full and true potential. Thank you.

I have selected the four amendments to the motion. I call on Darren Millar to move amendments 1, 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Darren Millar.

Amendment 1—Paul DaviesAdd as new point at end of motion:Regrets that the quality and variability of teaching still remains one of the weakest aspects of provision across sectors in the Welsh education system.

Amendment 2—Paul DaviesAdd as new point at end of motion:Regrets that the education system is still not meeting the needs of all learners.

Amendment 3—Paul DaviesAdd as new point at end of motion:Notes that leadership is the most significant factor affecting school improvement and calls upon the Welsh Government to bring forward more detailed information on the establishment of the National Academy of Educational Leadership, including its finances, targets, and how leaders will be able to access its support.

Amendments 1, 2 and 3 moved.

Darren Millar AC: Diolch, Lywydd. I want to formally move the amendments tabled in the name of Paul Davies. I’m very grateful to have the opportunity to speak in today’s debate, and I want to put on record my thanks to Estyn, as well, for the work that they do across Wales. Their inspections, of course, do provide us with a very valuable snapshot of what’s taking place in our schools across the country, and, indeed, in further education and early years settings. That report that they publish on an annual basis gives us the opportunity to take a look—zoom out, if you like—at the whole of the education system, in an overview.I’m very pleased, actually, that the Cabinet Secretary took a realistic view of what the report had to say. She wasn’t particularly chirpy today—she often is outside this Chamber—but she did highlight some of the good news that was in the report, and there is good news that we can celebrate, particularly in terms of leadership in early years, and leadership, indeed, in the further education sector, as well.But the concerning thing for me in this Estyn report was that there are echoes of problems that should’ve been resolved by now—things that have been highlighted by Estyn before and, indeed, by other agencies before that are still turning up, time and time again in these reports. Our amendment seeks to draw some attention to these. You’ve made reference to some of these already, of course, in your opening speech. Our first amendment focuses on the quality and variability of teaching. We know that Estyn has concluded that that is the weakest aspect of provision across sectors in the Welsh education system, and it has the biggest influence on learner outcomes. So, we have to get to grips with this issue, once and for all, and I know, Cabinet Secretary, to be fair to you, you’ve made some initial steps to get some improvement. I’m very pleased that we’ve got some new professional standards that have been developed, although I still cannot understand why it’s not the Education Workforce Council that’s setting those standards, and why you still feel that it’s necessary, as a Government, to do that, in spite of the fact that that is not the practice in most other jurisdictions. I also note as well that you are taking steps to improve initial teacher training and I’ll be looking forward to hearing more details about your specific proposals on that in the future.Of course, it was depressing—very depressing indeed—to see that Wales was at the bottom of the UK PISA league tables and, indeed, in the bottom half of the global league tables, and in a position that was worse this time around than the position we were in 10 years ago. We’ve got to step up the change in order to get up that league table and learn from the best. So, I’m pleased to hear you making references, as well, to learning from international centres of excellence in other countries in order that we get our situation right.There are things that schools, of course, can do in order to improve the opportunities for teachers to develop their skills and to take part in continuing professional development. Much of that they will be able to do if they’re freed up from some of the bureaucracy that they currently have to face and that’s why we were very welcoming of the recommendation in the OECD report that we needed to make use of more business managers in our schools. I know that that’s a view that you also share.But, of course, the OECD also said that there needed to be a much stronger leadership from the Government in terms of the clarity about the vision for the future and how you’re actually going to get there. I know that you are seeking to address that particular recommendation and you held a conference last week looking at some of these particular things and trying to highlight the role that schools, headteachers, the regional consortia and others have to actually play.You mentioned trying to get teachers into the profession as well, and I wonder what consideration you’ve given to making it easier for people to transition from other careers into the teaching sector, if they’ve got the propensity to be good teachers, and the potential to be good teachers. I’d be very interested to hear from you on that. With regard to leadership, I was particularly struck by the excellence that we’ve seen in leadership, particularly in the FE sector, in the report. And, of course, there was an award given to Coleg Cambria’s David Jones just last week, which also recognised his leadership skills. I wonder whether there’s an opportunity, actually, to cross-fertilise between the different parts of the education sector in order to up-skill our leaders and to take advantage of some of that expertise, particularly in those larger organisations, the larger schools where there can perhaps be something done to stretch people a little bit more and develop those skills. I think also, just in terms of the abilities of more able and talented pupils, we know that this is something that we also need to focus on. That’s one of the reasons why our PISA scores weren’t as good as they should have been and this is, again, something that’s repeated in the Estyn report. I also appreciate that Llyr is going to be talking about other pupils and pupil referral units, for example, but we clearly need to make sure that all of our pupils reach their maximum potential. I wonder, Cabinet Secretary, whether you will tell us a little bit more about your plans for more able and talented pupils, not just the Seren programme, but what else can be done in order to get those people, those younger people in particular, up there, reaching their full potential, and making sure that we do go up those league tables in the future. Thank you.

I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move amendment 3, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap IorwerthAdd as new point at end of motion:Regrets the relative poor performance of the pupil referral units inspected in 2015-16, of which none were identified with excellent practice and all four were placed in a statutory category of follow up, and calls on the Welsh Government to address weaknesses in provision, leadership and management as a matter of urgency.

Amendment 4 moved.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. May I also echo the thanks expressed to the chief inspector and his team in Estyn for the work that they have done, and for the way in which they engaged with the children and young people committee here in the Assembly by providing evidence and being so willing—in this context anyway—to bring their annual report before us?I also want to focus on variability, and I’m grateful that the amendment has been tabled by the Conservatives. It is certainly something we would have done if you hadn’t got in there first. I raised this directly with the chief inspector when they did come to provide evidence to us, and he was concerned, too, that not enough has been done over the years to tackle this issue. Of course, we can take action on individual school level—indeed, we need to take action at an individual school level, on the education authority and consortia level, and the national level to tackle it. So, there are a number of levels of activity that are needed to tackle this, and it relates to leadership, of course, in terms of tackling the quality of the teaching and learning, and it relates to continuous professional development of staff. In schools, we need to do more to create the culture and the conditions where teachers can share and discuss their practice with colleagues in an open way so that they can learn from each other within institutions, as well as sharing practice between institutions, too.On a longer term basis, on a national level, as we have seen, there is some work now looking at improving initial teacher training and improving leadership through the academy and so on. Therefore, variability between schools and variability within schools, and that was one of the messages conveyed by the chief inspector—the same is the problem, essentially. When Estyn says that a school is performing well, what they are saying is that that school is consistently performing well. But when a school is adequate, well, perhaps that consistency isn’t in place; there are pockets of good practice, but there are also pockets of bad practice, and that’s where we get the variability, if truth be told. The consortia were inspected last year, and Estyn said at that time that not enough had been done to tackle variability, particularly at the secondary level. That message is endorsed in this annual report. It is a feature of our best schools, of course, that they do create broad networks and that they are very proactive in learning from others, who will also have a positive experience from doing that—it works both ways. A consistent characteristic of the poorest providers is they are isolated, looking inward, rather than looking externally for good practice. That is something that we can change. I think we can tackle that relatively easily—well, ‘easily’ is a strong word, perhaps, but one of the issues is releasing staff to leave the classroom so that they can share their experiences, but the value of that is so great, I think, that it is something that we must emphasise more.Another aspect of variability—and this touches upon the need to meet the needs of all learners, as is outlined in the second amendment—is the gap in performance between boys and girls, and pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds and other pupils. That gap tends to widen as they move through their school career, and I know, certainly in terms of disadvantage, and I’m sure in terms of the gap between girls and boys, that the Cabinet Secretary is eager to tackle this. But, as that gap does tend to widen, what does that tell us about our success in tackling this variability that exists within the education system? It may be a challenge for wider society, but there is a central role for schools here, too, and that is one of the major challenges, moving forward.In terms of the Plaid Cymru amendment, not a single pupil referral unit inspected was identified as excellent by Estyn in this current year. Significant deficiencies were identified in terms of provision, leadership and management in all four. The performance of these units has been an area of concern for a number of years. Their relatively poor performance was raised in amendments to debates on Estyn reports by the Liberal Democrats in 2012-13, and again in 2013-14 by the Conservatives, and therefore I suppose that it’s our turn this time, unfortunately. Therefore, this is something that should have been tackled with greater urgency over the years. The most recent report as well as the previous annual reports, including the thematic reports, have shown that there is a need for urgent action in this area.The Cabinet Secretary has mentioned her intention to improve the experiences of pupils in the pupil referral units, noting that she would use some of the additional resources available to her following the budget to that end. I also recognise that she is working with the former chief inspector to look at this situation, but the problem is old history by now. There was a reference in July last year in terms of the task and finish group on education other than in school, and that would formulate part of the emerging framework for action. That was the reference back in July, and I haven’t been able to find much more detail on that, and I would be grateful, in responding to the debate, if the Cabinet Secretary could give us a better idea of what the proposals are, what the timetables are, and where exactly we are in this area. Thank you.

John Griffiths AC: I would like to—not for the first time—raise the issue of community-focused schools, which I continue to believe is very important to the performance of our education system in Wales. I think one issue that Estyn has raised in its report, and consistently raises, is variability in the education system in Wales. That variability applies to community-focused schools. Some schools are very good in engaging with families and the wider community, others not so good. I do believe that it really matters. Many people, I think, are rightly annoyed to see schools shut off from the community in the evenings, at weekends and school holidays. It’s a waste of resource at a time of great strain on public finances, and it’s not doing that job of engaging with families and the community that should be consistently taking place right across Wales. It does come home to me, Llywydd, many times in my own constituency—and I’m sure it’s the case all across Wales—that very often there is, in some families and some communities, not a sufficient valuing of education and not a sufficient commitment to education that we would all like to see. So, that reflects itself in school attendance. I often hear people saying that, for example, their children have achieved 95 per cent attendance as if that’s something or a rate to be proud of, when of course that means missing far too much school. Indeed, there are many worse attendance rates than that. It manifests itself, I believe, in a lack of support sometimes for children doing their homework, revising properly for exams, and it lowers ambitions in terms of higher education. So, one thing I frequently hear—too frequently—is that you can go to university and you may still end up without a job, or without a job that is any more rewarding than the job you might have got had you not gone to university. So, I think we cannot generalise, but there are some families and people in some of our communities where these sorts of attitudes are too prevalent. One way of cutting across them is to genuinely and consistently engage with those families and those communities, even given that some families had a bad experience of education themselves and may view schools as very middle-class institutions, largely full of middle-class professionals that they do not particularly feel confident in engaging with, or perhaps even want to engage with. So, there are real barriers—difficult barriers—that have to be broken down. But, Llywydd, the only way that that will happen, with consistency, will be if there’s a strong drive, I would say, and leadership from the Welsh Government, working with local authorities, school governing bodies, educational professionals and others to achieve the consistency that we need to see. I do believe that it’s necessary to establish a mechanism, whatever it might be, to ensure that consistency and a lack of variability right across Wales.I often hear from governors and school heads that the caretaker might want some extra money to open up the school—it’s never much money, but that’s seen as an issue—and that there are security issues on site if the school is open to the community. Again, that’s not an issue that cannot be overcome with the right sort of will and commitment. Indeed, I think many schools find that opening up the site actually is an aid to security, because there are people around more often when the school is closed to ensure that people cannot do things without being seen, and acts are witnessed.It’s not just about twenty-first century schools, Llywydd, either. It’s about the existing school stock. So, if we are going to have the consistency that we need right across Wales, it has to be a mechanism that achieves progress in the existing school stock, not only the twenty-first century schools. So, I would be very grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could say something in her contribution to this debate that would give me some comfort that we may see that consistency achieved and a mechanism in place as quickly as possible.

Michelle Brown AC: Welsh Labour has had control over education in some shape or form since the inception of the Assembly. Sometimes they’ve been assisted by coalitions with Plaid Cymru or the Lib Dems, as they currently are now. Elements of the Estyn report today clearly show the people of Wales what happens when you hand control of education policy to one of the so-called progressive parties. Firstly, Estyn admit that only a minority of pupils have sound reasoning skills and can solve problems logically. This admission is absolutely shocking. Our schools are supposed to be preparing young people for business, entrepreneurship, science and research of the highest standards, but the majority of them, according to Estyn, in most secondary schools, do not have sound reasoning, problem-solving skills, or a grasp of logic. If this is the result of the progressive coalition policy, the Welsh public must wonder what the Welsh Government via its curriculum are directing both teachers and students to spend their time on. The reports mentions time being spent on eco-committees—

Member of the Senedd: Will you take an intervention?

Michelle Brown AC: No. [Continues.]—pupil councils, conflict resolution, community activity and charity fundraising and suchlike, but raising standards in reasoning, problem solving, and logic through traditional subjects must take priority.Secondly, I want to talk about teacher retention, and the impact this has on the areas that Estyn monitors. Estyn talks about developing the profession. It outlines developing the right culture, supportive relationships, engaging with research evidence, using data and new technology, and leadership. They emphasise that unelected—and, I repeat, unelected—third sector charitable foundations such as the National Foundation for Educational Research, the Sutton Trust, the Education Endowment Foundation, and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, play some role in gathering evidence to impact upon these updates. These topics, however well meaning, should not mask or override the topic of teacher retention. It is not as simple as taking a new graduate and downloading the latest and greatest politically correct updates and research into them. Teaching is something that develops with practice and experience. Experienced teachers are a vital asset to Welsh schools, but Welsh schools are losing them rapidly. StatsWales tells us that Welsh schools lost 334 teachers with six or more years of experience in the year 2014-15 alone. The statistics present similar figures for each and every academic year since 2007 to 2015. Why are experienced teachers not being retained? Could all of the time spent on updates, training, data monitoring, and suchlike, rather than practical, face-to-face teaching, in fact be the reason why they become disillusioned and leave? UKIP emphasise that teachers do best when they acquire as much experience as possible by doing face-to-face teaching. We also emphasise that retaining those teachers has to be the way forward. Thirdly, I would like to talk about those the Welsh schools have failed, specifically, NEETs—those not in education, employment or training. Estyn say that, at the end of 2015, just over 10 per cent of 16 to 18-year-olds were in the NEET category—this is 11,500 young people in Wales. They report in 2015 that 19 per cent of the age group of 19 to 24-year-olds are in the NEET category—that’s 42,200 young people.Whether or not these statistics are some sort of an improvement on previous years is beside the point. These figures are far, far, far too high. They are again testament to the fact that the progressive coalitions that have controlled education for so long are failing large numbers of young people and families in Wales by not equipping them with the skills to live a productive and fulfilling life.To conclude, I would like to reflect on the Welsh coalition parties responsible for education one last time. They like to describe themselves as progressive or the progressive left, but Welsh schools haven’t progressed, at least not in the areas that I’ve highlighted. My best guess is that ‘progressive’ is simply a code word for the complete destruction of all best practice, logic and experience that went before, and replacing it with politically correct updates and training from unelected third sector expert foundations and charities. Thank you.

Lee Waters AC: Until about 10 years ago, I used to get paid to stand in the street and stop people and ask their opinions on the issues of the day. Some people would stop, some would shout abuse. In fact, when you think about it, my life hasn’t changed that much at all. I’m pretty confident that, if I were to do a vox pop today and ask people which they were most concerned about, the PISA report or the Estyn report, I’d be met with blank looks. Most people don’t obsess about these things, but they have a view of their local school, and it’s usually positive.Of course, for most people, schools are much more than about data; they are focal points for their communities. Before becoming an Assembly Member, I spent 10 years as a primary school governor, seven of those as an active chair in a successful school, a school whose leadership did not take the deprivation of their community as an excuse for performance but as a spur for excellence. One of the things I learned was the value of data properly used to direct teaching and learning to try and ensure every child achieves their potential.If I was stopped for a vox pop, I would say I am far more concerned about the Estyn report than I am about the PISA rankings. I don’t dismiss the importance of PISA; I think it’s right that we take notice of it. But, to my mind, the annual report of the chief inspector of schools contains far more worrying conclusions about the day-to-day performance of our schools. It’s these issues that determine whether we can create a successful schools system, which, ultimately, is what PISA measures.I just want to focus on a few points from the report about schools that jump out at me. Clearly, we have a problem with the quality of teaching. Estyn regards teaching as one of the weakest aspects of the education system. We should be clear: there is some world-class teaching in Welsh schools—world class—but there is far too much variation;‘the gap between providers that are doing well and those that are not is still too wide’, the chief inspector of schools says in his annual report. And, as the report notes, the Donaldson curriculum reforms will demand more of our teachers, particularly in digital learning, an area where the report tells us there are only ‘very few schools’ excelling and many are completely failing to equip young people with these essential skills for the modern world.As well as addressing the recruitment and initial teacher training of teachers, as the Welsh Government is, Estyn argues we need to address professional learning and development for current teachers, an area we have neglected—and, I would add, not just for teachers. Very nearly half of our school staff work in a support role. They are critical to the success of our education system, but we do not value them, we do not train them well, and we do not pay them well enough.The Cabinet Secretary has already started work on improving leadership in our schools, and I strongly support that. Being a headteacher is an enormously challenging role. You can spot a great one a mile off, and I am in awe of them. I’m always amazed at the range of skills needed to be an excellent head, a mastery of everything from the plumbing to pedagogy. The best, Estyn found, know the strengths and weaknesses of teaching in their institutions. But, in providers where teaching has shortcomings, Estyn says,‘leaders do not have a clear idea of what needs to be improved and self-evaluation reports are often thin on detail regarding teaching.’Leadership is the key to addressing these shortcomings. I find it very worrying that, in Carmarthenshire, there are currently 23 schools without a permanent headteacher. I am encouraged that seven out of 10 primary schools inspected this year are good or better, which is a little better than last year, but it is deeply troubling that just four out of ten of our secondary schools are judged to be good or better—the same as last year—with just a quarter having some excellence, down from 38 per cent last year.Now, just as we should celebrate excellence, we should not tolerate mediocrity—we all know it when we see that, too, but the system doesn’t call it out. Governors do not challenge it enough and mediocre heads often surround themselves with mediocre governors to ensure they’re not challenged. Local education authorities do not do enough to deal with underperforming heads. One of my disappointments with the end of the Schools Challenge Cymru project is that it’s ending before some of the leadership shortfalls have been fully confronted in our poorest-performing schools.I was very concerned to hear the chief inspector of schools tell the Public Accounts Committee some months ago that he did not propose to inspect LEAs in the next inspection round, but he would instead focus on the regional consortia. Clearly, they have some explaining to do for the variability in performance across schools, particularly secondary schools, but I would ask the Cabinet Secretary to reflect on whether we can afford to take the eye off LEAs.Surely, the lesson of the last 20 years of the devolution of education policy is that we can innovate and we can achieve excellence, but only when we are searingly honest with ourselves about how the whole system is performing. This year’s annual Estyn report is invaluable in reminding us that we can ill afford to be complacent. Thank you.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to reply to the debate—Kirsty Williams.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Could I thank everybody for their contributions to the debate this afternoon, which, on the whole, have been incredibly positive and supportive and add to the debate on how we can take our education reform journey forward? If I can begin by addressing some of the issues around the amendments that have been tabled today, the Welsh Government intends to support amendment 3 and amendment 4.Starting with the Plaid Cymru amendment, I absolutely accept, Llyr, that there needs to be improvement with regard to pupil referral units. I was worried about them when I sat over there and I continue to be worried about them now that I sit here, and I’m very happy to accept that amendment. As you said, Llyr, none of the four units inspected this year were identified as having excellent practice, and all four were placed in statutory category ‘follow-up’, and that isn’t good enough. We have to aim higher for these most vulnerable of pupils.One of the greatest strengths of our education other than at school—EOTAS—is its ability to provide bespoke and unique support to meet the untypical needs of its challenging learners. While we acknowledge that the sector is in need of reform, I’m also very keen to maintain as much flexibility as possible. We know that good practice does exist in PRUs. The challenge is to mainstream that good practice so that all young people accessing the provision receive a high standard of education, enabling them to reach their full potential.As Llyr alluded to, Presiding Officer, the Welsh Government established the EOTAS task and finish group in 2015 with the purpose of developing practical measures aimed at improving outcomes for learners accessing the provision. The group is still finalising its framework for action, which I expect to be submitted for my consideration later this year, and then I will be informing the Chamber of how we intend to implement the framework for action and drive change forward in that area.If I could turn to the amendment by the Conservatives, we will also be supporting the Conservatives’ amendment on leadership. This Chamber will be aware that promoting and supporting leadership is central to my reform agenda. As initially outlined, I would hope to have entrants into the new system as quickly as possible. The academy itself, I should make it clear, will not be the provider of services—it will be the broker, it will co-ordinate services, and it will quality assure the range of leadership programmes that will be available.Whilst we will be supporting the amendment, I will, of course, reiterate that things do take time, but we do need to increase pace. While I have laid out some of the broad principles for the new organisation, further work will be undertaken by the shadow board on the development of the broad underlying principles. The shadow board will initially look at leadership from headteachers, which ties into the point that was made so eloquently by Lee Waters: we have to focus on the quality of the leaders that we currently have in our schools, but we also have to look at the role the academy can play in supporting aspiring headteachers, the next generation of our school leaders.But, in the longer term, I want the academy to cover leadership development for the whole educational sector. Darren Millar made a very, very good point about FE leadership: once again, quality of FE shines through in the inspector’s report, and I would like to congratulate David Jones on his recent award. The FE leadership programme has been in place for a number of years. We also have a similar leadership programme in place for HE—that’s been available for a number of years, and there are clearly lessons for us to learn from both the FE sector and the HE sector in developing the leadership programme for our schools. It’s a matter of regret that we have not had a similar programme, but we have to learn from what has worked so well in terms of FE and HE, and get the cross-fertilisation of ideas to have the impact that we want. So, the development of the leadership academy is an important step forward, alongside our new professional teacher standards and our reform to initial teacher education in developing and addressing the issues around inconsistent teaching standards here that have been highlighted.The other points that were made, Darren—I’m glad that you recognise the range and scope of Estyn’s work; it’s not just about schools. I’m less concerned about who sets the teaching standards than I am about the outcomes of them. I’m sure that we will both be very happy if, as a result of the new teaching standards, we see a driving up in quality in future annual reports about teaching.We are working on a new version of ‘Qualified for Life’, which will provide the clarity around our national mission of education improvement, as has been suggested by the OECD, and we are exploring a range of new ways in which we can get people who have perhaps enjoyed part of their career in a different profession into the teaching profession, because they can bring a great wealth of experience. I’m particularly interested in looking at people who’ve worked in industry, in the sciences, and having them brought into our schools. [Interruption.] Certainly.

Darren Millar AC: I’m very grateful to you for taking the intervention. Would you agree with me that we also then have to look at the bursary system, in order to perhaps use that to entice people in, particularly in those shortage areas that you just referenced?

Kirsty Williams AC: Yes, and I think we have to be creative. We have to acknowledge that we are being outbid at present by the English system, so we have to be creative in what we can offer people. It’s not always about the money. People don’t go into teaching to make a huge amount of money, so we have to be creative in how we can use our bursary system to be able to attract people here. More able and talented—it is a source of huge concern to me. We recognise Nesta’s report about our more able and talented children in the primary sector, who are not making as much progress as we would like to see, and then we see that as it goes on through the system. You’ll be aware that we have recently announced new initiatives around an excellence framework around maths and science, to try and drive up standards—it’s primarily focused on improving the teaching experience that people have in the classroom. Llyr, you’re absolutely right; our most successful schools are schools that are outward looking. They look around themselves, they look and see what best practice is, they reflect on research, what works best for children, and they implement that and they do it in their own individual practice. Our commitment to professional learning is all about that. That’s why we’re changing the way in which we’re going to train our teachers, and the professional learning opportunities we will have for current teachers. You talked about the gaps that exist between different cohorts of students. What’s really pleasing is that Estyn’s inspection notes that in the primary sector, the gap between boys and girls, and the gap between those on free school meals and those who are better off, is closing. So, we are doing something right in the primary sector, we just have to make sure that that continues. But let’s be clear; we have seen a 4 per cent narrowing at level 2 plus for children doing their GCSEs, over 3 years. It’s down to the hard work of individual schools and institutions, supported by a generous pupil deprivation grant, which drives some of that change forward.John, on your commitment to community-focused schools, I believe that schools have the potential to be drivers for real change for their entire community, and we already have some really fantastic examples of that in Wales, and we need to ensure that those principles can be adapted. I’m working very closely with my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Children on how we can use the programmes that we’re both in charge of and schools as a hub to drive that change. Family engagement is absolutely crucial. Recently, we received a presentation from Joe Cudd. He works in the Morfa, in Llanelli, my home town. Those of you who know it know that it’s a pretty tough place to grow up. There are some pretty unsavoury things going on not very far from his school door. But that man—that man is absolutely fantastic. He sees his school, and his commitment to his children, going beyond just those individual children. He works really hard with mums and dads to address the learning environment children have at home and to address barriers to the children learning at home. He’s getting mums in to schools and they are then are going on to take further qualifications themselves and going out to work themselves—and doing amazing work. That’s happening in the Morfa. It happens at Woodlands primary school in Cwmbran; again, amazing interaction with the family that is turning into real results for those children. So, we have to work much harder in getting a consistent message from Welsh Government on how schools can be the hub of real change, not just for individual children, but communities as a whole. Joe Cudd is going to a conference in America next year to talk about his work in Morfa. How amazing is that? They are so impressed by what he’s doing that they want to hear about a tiny bit of a school in Llanelli over there in the United States and we should applaud people like Joe and what we’re doing. But you know we’re going to have summer food and fun clubs utilising schools this summer to provide those opportunities. Can I just say, Michelle—? You might not think that the drop in NEETs that we have seen is significant, but I tell you, for each and every one of those children, that is a massive, massive improvement. Dawn and I were recently at Merthyr college, which has seen a significant drop in the number of children that are not going on to study post 16. It’s fantastic and it makes a massive difference to those children. I don’t know about you—you may think that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Sutton Trust and people like that are do-gooders, but I see them as crucial aids in driving change in our system, because what they do is not peddle the latest thing; what they do is peddle evidence—evidence about what works and about what makes a difference to children. I will be driven and I will follow that evidence and I just think you need to reflect on what you said about those well-respected organisations in this Chamber today. To conclude, Llywydd, I am, of course, really pleased that Estyn considers that many of our schools are making good use of research and are taking advantage of professional learning opportunities to influence their work with the most disadvantaged learners. There is much to be done in the Welsh education system and I will not rest and I will strain every sinew to make sure that all of our children—all of our children—have the opportunities that they deserve.

The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? [Object.]

I will defer voting on this item until voting time.

7. 6. Debate: International Women's Day

Voting deferred until voting time.

The next item is the debate on International Women’s Day. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children to move the motion. Carl Sargeant.

Motion NDM6247 Jane HuttTo propose that the National Assembly for Wales:Celebrates International Women's Day 2017 and recognises the role, contribution and achievements of women in the economic, political, social and cultural life of Wales.

Motion moved.

Carl Sargeant AC: Llywydd, I’m pleased to open this debate in celebration of International Women’s Day 2017. The first International Women’s Day took place over 100 years ago and since then it’s grown into a truly global event—a day when the achievements of girls and women are recognised irrespective of nationality, ethnicity, language, culture, wealth or politics. It’s an excellent example of how people can come together, as one, for a common cause. Men have a duty to speak out on equality, violence and abuse and we need an International Women’s Day because those battles are not yet won. Until that time comes, I am proud to stand with those who call out abusers, the sexist and the denigrators of women, whoever they may be and wherever they may peddle their poisonous misogyny.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Carl Sargeant AC: The theme for International Women’s Day in Wales this year is ‘creating an equal future’ and we’re proud to support the Women’s Equality Network Wales in delivering four International Women’s Day events across Wales. Deputy Llywydd, the Welsh Government stands committed to enhancing the lives and opportunities of girls and women across Wales, creating an equal future for them. We must recognise, however, that despite all of the progress that has been made, girls and women still face barriers and inequality. Creating an equal future chimes well with the Welsh Government’s aims and commitments. From tackling poverty and delivering a more diverse pool of decision makers in public life to lessening the pay gap and tackling violence and abuse, our equality objectives ensure that action is focused on the areas that disproportionately affect women and the other protected groups. The evidence tells us that lone parents are more likely to be women and as those with childcare and other caring responsibilities, women within these groups can find themselves in poverty and access to training or work can be really difficult. We know that employment provides the most sustainable route out of poverty, and that’s why tackling the barriers to employment is a key priority for this Government. Programmes such as Lift and Communities for Work are making an important difference by providing bespoke and targeted support for those furthest away from the workplace. I’m pleased to say that, up to the end of January, 55 per cent of participants engaged on Communities for Work programmes have been women. Affordable, available and accessible childcare can be a major barrier to women accessing training and employment. This is why we’ve committed to offering working parents 30 hours a week of free early education and childcare for three to four-year-olds for a 48-week period. As well as providing support into employment, we also must build women’s confidence and skills so that they can make further headway in a wide range of sectors, and achieve positions of influence. We recently accepted all of the recommendations within the ‘Talented Women for a Successful Wales’ report, which aims to tackle the critical shortage of women in STEM roles in Wales, and work is already under way to take this forward. The Welsh Government as an employer has pledged its commitment to the 50/50 by 2020 campaign, alongside other organisations and employers in all sectors in Wales, and signing up to the campaign demonstrates employers’ public commitment to working towards equal gender representation in decision-making and influencing roles here in Wales. We’re also working hard to encourage and support women and other under-represented groups to come forward for public appointments. Diversity of representation brings divert of thought—fresh ideas, new perspectives and a better understanding of our communities. We are committed to addressing gender pay inequalities, and we have robust duties in place for the public sector in Wales so that we don’t just report on the pay gap, but that we also to take action on the underlying causes too, including the different distribution of men and women between grades, occupations, working patterns and contract types. It’s not good enough that women are concentrated in sectors and occupations that are often associated with low pay, and often low hours and casual or zero-hours contracts. Our society is still based on gender-biased norms, so we must continue to challenge gender stereotypes and encourage girls and women into non-traditional, better paid careers. Llywydd, our Agile Nation 2 project, run in partnership with Chwarae Teg and jointly funded by the EU, supports 2,207 women and works with 500 employers to promote female career advancement and to reduce the gender pay gap. The project is focusing on nine key sectors of the Welsh economy, including advanced manufacturing, life sciences, health and energy. As I’ve said, we must recognise the importance of men playing their part in working for gender equality. We all have a part to play. Without men as committed allies and supportive partners in this quest led by women, genuine change will not happen. The positive impacts of gender equality are good for all of us—our families and society as a whole. We must also stand together against domestic abuse and other types of violence against women, which can have devastating and long-term consequences. Our Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 is a landmark piece of legislation. It is intended to provide a strategic focus on these issues to prevent violence wherever possible, and to provide effective support for victims. But the key is to change the attitudes and get the message across that violent behaviour is not acceptable in any circumstances, and will not be tolerated in our society. This is a day to celebrate the achievements of women, Llywydd. In the National Assembly, we have a female Llywydd and a female Deputy Llywydd. Within Welsh Government, the Permanent Secretary, the chief scientific officer and the chief veterinary officer are all women. The four commissioners in Wales for future generations, older people, children and the Welsh language are all women. What great models they all are, Llywydd. I’m sure their achievements serve to highlight the talent that we have here in Wales, and we will encourage other women to put themselves forward for those top jobs. Llywydd, we’re not complacent. There is much more to be done before we can claim that we’ve created an equal future, but Wales has much to be proud of and we stand committed to supporting women and girls to aspire and achieve here in Wales and across the globe. Diolch.

Thank you very much. I have selected the four amendments to the motion, and I call on Sian Gwenllian to move amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Sian.

Amendment 1—Rhun ap IorwerthAdd as new points at end of motion:Notes that women remain under-represented in leadership positions and regrets that only 4 per cent of the CEOs of the top 100 businesses in Wales and 31 per cent of board members of major WGSBs are women.Calls on the Welsh Government to commit to reaching the 40 per cent threshold of gender balance of women on WGSBs and to increase the number of women that are chairs and on advisory panels of WGSBs.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap IorwerthAdd as new point at end of motion:Regrets that the median hourly pay gap between men and women in Wales in 2015 was 14.6 per cent.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap IorwerthAdd as new point at end of motion:Regrets that 29 per cent of women working in Wales earned below the living wage, compared to 20.5 per cent of men, based on the hourly living wage of £8.25 as at April 2016.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap IorwerthAdd as new point at end of motion:Believes that gender parity in Wales would be improved if healthy relationships lessons became compulsory in schools.

Amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 moved.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you very much, and thank you for bringing this important debate forward today. It is true to say that the situation of women has been transformed since the days of the suffragettes, but equality is a long way from being a reality. I do hope that Plaid Cymru’s amendments note in a practical way a few areas where this Government can bring influence to bear. One of our amendments relates to healthy relationship lessons in schools. The education sector in England has announced that sex and relationship education is going to be mandatory in schools. Healthy relationship education will be taught in primary schools there, with a focus on building healthy relationships and remaining safe. And secondary schools will be duty-bound to teach sex education and healthy relationship education, where pupils will develop their understanding of healthy relationships among adults, with sex education taught in the same context. Schools in Wales don’t have any duty to bring these courses forward, other than to just teach pupils about HIV, AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. A report by the European Parliament notes that the Nordic and Benelux countries have the highest-quality sex and relationship education, and that report also suggests that high levels of pregnancy among teenage girls happen in nations where sex and relationship education is taught at too late a stage in their lives. It was noted in a report from Bristol university in 2016 that LGBT education is invisible within sex and relationship education and reinforces prejudices against the LGBT community. Research shows that sex and relationship education that is effective not only reduces pregnancy levels among teenage girls and sexually transmitted diseases, but it can also, of course, open discussions in relation to abuse of women and girls and reduce violence against women.Now, 8.3 per cent of women between 16 and 59 in Wales suffered domestic abuse during 2016, compared with 4.3 per cent of men. Now, in this figure, 3 per cent of women suffered a sexual assault, compared with 0.5 per cent of males, 6.5 per cent of women suffered abuse from a partner, compared with 2.7 per cent of men, and 4.4 per cent of women suffered stalking, compared with 3.5 per cent of men. This shows a gender disparity that is clear. In order to change this, we need to introduce healthy relationship education at as early a stage as possible, and I do note that the Cabinet Secretary for Education has established a panel to assist with this work in Wales. But I also note concern expressed by some that this aspect of developing the national curriculum isn’t being given as much priority as it could by this Government and that we are at risk of missing this real opportunity provided by the Donaldson review.I turn now to another of our amendments related to representation. In 2014 only two of every 100 of the top businesses in Wales had a woman chief executive, and in terms of local authorities, only 18 per cent of chief executives are women, and only 27 per cent of councillors are women. This is in stark contrast with the staff of local authorities, where 72 per cent were women in 2014. Now, the percentage of female Assembly Members has fallen to 41.7 per cent from 50 per cent in 2003, and my own party has room for improvement here. We need to reintroduce a system and a meaningful mechanism to increase that percentage, in my view. Plaid Cymru, in Government, would introduce management boards that were gender balanced in institutions funded by the Welsh Government. I’ve only touched on two areas this afternoon, but two areas that this Government, in an entirely practical way, with the right will, can address and assist us to move towards a far fairer Wales. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Hannah Blythyn.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Today’s motion to mark International Women’s Day proposes that the National Assembly for Wales‘Celebrates International Women's Day 2017 and recognises the role, contribution and achievements of women in the economic, political, social and cultural life of Wales.’With this in mind, it’s right that we recognise history, or should I say herstory makers and great contributions made to our country. But I’d like to take time today to pay tribute to some of the truly remarkable women making a difference in a variety of ways in my constituency of Delyn and across Flintshire—the fabulous women who rarely make the headlines, but are the beating heart of our communities and our country and are the glue that binds us together, the women who do things not for recognition or reward, but just because it’s the right thing to do or just because that’s what we do as women.So, last week, I took to social media—and it didn’t go wrong—to seek suggestions of wonderful women to give a mention to today. Like for many Members here, Delyn reflects a proud Welsh tradition with the brilliant Flint Male Voice Choir, but not to be outdone, in 2013, the Flint Ladies’ Choir was formed. The fabulous Flint Ladies’ Choir has gone from strength to strength, guided, in no small part, by their chair of the last three years—Mel Buckley. Mel dedicates her time with an enthusiasm and energy that is set to see the choir go from strength to strength in the community and beyond, offering opportunities to so many local women. The choir now has nearly 70 members and I hope to host them in the Senedd sometime later this year.Sarah Way, nominated by her wife, Sue, is someone who embodies the absolute value of volunteers and how volunteering brings our communities together. An unpaid full-time volunteer director for RainbowBiz Limited, Sarah tirelessly gives her time day and night to the social enterprise, supporting the many amazing people she works with across projects and events across Flintshire, including the popular Digging Deeside gardening project, which I know the Cabinet Secretary will be familiar with and that has become a lifeline for many of the volunteers involved. Indeed, volunteers are the essential fabric of our local communities and organisations.Each year, many of us here take part in events, activities and services to mark Remembrance Sunday, the vast majority of which are made possible only by people volunteering their time and dedication. Val Nevitt is one such person, and a shining light in the local community—the poppy appeal organiser in Flint for four years now, raising £13,000 last year alone. Because of Val’s unwavering commitment and hard work, the poppy appeal in Flint has gone from strength to strength and Val has raised over £50,000 for the poppy appeal during her time as organiser.At an event last weekend, I met a group of inspiring young women from Mold Alun School who were volunteering as part of the United Nations Foundation’s Girl Up campaign—a campaign that engages young women to take action to support girls and young women in the developing world, in places where it’s often hardest to be a girl. These amazing Alun School students are changing perceptions and doing their bit to break down barriers within their own school, whilst at the same time championing the cause of young women across the world. Last but by no means least—Viv Williams, sat in the gallery here today. One of the founders of Flintshire War Memorials, Viv and the volunteer team at Flintshire War Memorials, known more colloquially to us and familiar to us as Names on Stones on Twitter, have worked and continue to work tirelessly to tell the stories of those who served and fell locally in the first world war and who we often have only known as names on stones. Viv also organises study trips to Flanders and works tirelessly to share the stories and work of Flintshire War Memorials with organisations and groups across the area, from schools to the Women’s Institute and much more.Of course, there are many more women out there in my constituency and across our country making a difference, doing more than their bit, and to all of you today and every day, we say ‘thank you’. Thank you for all that you do, thank you for being an inspirational woman and thank you for blazing a trail for all of us.

Thank you. Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: International Women’s Day is a day of celebration across the world. It’s a day to come together to mark the achievements and successes of women, often in adverse conditions, in all spheres. It’s not just a time for celebration, it’s also a time for reflection, a time to realise that there’s still so much to do in terms of gender equality. It might be 2017, but we face the risk of going backwards if the likes of Nigel Farage and UKIP had their way. We’ve all heard those statements from them calling for paid maternity leave and anti-discrimination laws to be scrapped. Let none of us pretend that there are not existing threats to the hard-fought rights that women have achieved to date.I don’t want my daughter or her daughters to grow up in a society that treats them worse or pays them less because of their gender. I don’t want her to grow up in a society that could well overlook her for promotion because of her gender. I don’t want her to grow up in a society where she is more likely to be bullied in her workplace or online because of her gender. And I don’t want her to grow up in a society where she is more likely to be the victim of domestic abuse or rape because she will be a woman. Yet, unless we see some drastic change, that is the fate that awaits her and all of the other girls growing up in Wales and, in fact, much of the world. No matter how much we teach them to be confident, or tell them that they can do or be anything that they choose, that is the reality that they face.In the last century, a strong band of women put their lives on the line, quite literally, to achieve universal suffrage. They were afraid of no-one. They were not prepared to be second-class citizens. A century on, and we are still striving for gender equality and an end to violence against women and misogyny, and we are still striving for many more equality measures. That is why I am proud to call myself a feminist—it’s because I want equality, and it’s why I will join millions of others throughout the world to celebrate International Women’s Day.

Mark Isherwood AC: As the theme for International Women’s Day 2017 states, we must be bold for change and step up to help drive gender equality. We will be supporting the motion and all amendments. Despite progress in some areas, we must address the barriers that continue to prevent women from playing as full a role as men in the economic, political, social and cultural life of Wales. Oxfam Cymru is calling for a human economy that benefits women and men alike. Oxfam Scotland’s ‘decent work’ research showed that women valued a number of factors higher than men, for example a supportive line manager, support to return to work after absence, additional benefits beyond pay, flexibility in choosing working hours, and a job that is easy to get to. As the charity Chwarae Teg/Fair Play states, steps to address gender inequality can help drive economic growth, yet steps to drive economic growth will not necessarily deliver equality. As a new economic strategy for Wales is developed, they’ve said it’s crucial that the following three questions are addressed: how can the strategy deliver equally for men and women? How can the strategy take equal and fair consideration of the contribution of men and women? And how can it be ensured that the strategy doesn’t create any additional barriers to women reaching their full potential? They emphasise that Wales’s economy is not currently making the most of women’s potential, where women’s economic participation remains lower than men’s, where women continue to be more commonly employed in sectors that are lower paid and offer fewer opportunities to progress, and are less likely to be represented in more senior positions, and where women are often found working below their skill level with a lack of appropriate childcare and/or flexible working options cited as contributing factors. In consequence, a 16 per cent gender pay gap persists in Wales.Chwarae Teg’s experience in delivering the previous Presiding Officer’s Women in Public Life development scheme confirms that there are sufficient numbers of interested, suitably qualified and experienced women in Wales to provide boards with a ready-made pool of talented women to fill available posts and help the boards achieve their goals. They also propose using public procurement, investing in good social infrastructure, such as childcare and health services, and tackling gender stereotypes as additional steps to address the complex causes of the gender pay gap. This includes healthy relationship education, helping pupils develop a better understanding of gender roles and ensuring that teachers and schools are supported to create gender inclusive learning environments. As I stated during the Stage 3 proceedings of the Violence Against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015, those of us, like myself, who have been out, for example on Hafan Cymru’s Spectrum project, teaching children and young people about healthy relationships, abuse, its consequences and where to seek help, know of the positive impact this can have. Assurances were secured by the three opposition parties at Stage 4 of the Act that stakeholders from the violence against women sector would be involved in developing proposals to ensure that healthy relationship education is developed within the Welsh curriculum—something we heard about at lunchtime at the cross-party group on violence against women and children. In 2014 the Centre for Social Justice reported findings that 43 per cent of young people received no information about healthy relationships in school, and that one in three girls and one in six boys experienced sexual violence in the classroom. They recommended that relationship education be made mandatory in the school curriculum. In England, the UK Government has now announced a requirement for relationship education in primary schools and relationship and sex education in secondary schools.The Autistic Women’s Empowerment Project recently told the cross-party autism group that the different presentations of autism in women and girls suggest that the accepted ratio of five boys to one girl should actually be a lot closer, where many females are left undiagnosed, misdiagnosed or without support. As the parents of many misdiagnosed daughters have told me, statutory bodies don’t understand that thinking has changed, that autism presents differently in girls, and that many females are unable to access a diagnosis due to stereotype views, leaving autistic girls and women vulnerable to low self-worth, anxiety, depression and self-harm.Well, with local government elections on the horizon, I will conclude by referring to the Equality and Human Rights Commission figures, showing that only 26 per cent of councillors in Wales are women. Well, my wife is a Flintshire county councillor, and until we address the health-harming misogyny that she suffered there, many more women will not be encouraged to come forward.

Dawn Bowden AC: Can I say that I’m absolutely delighted to be able to speak in this debate as part of the celebration of International Women’s Day? It’s celebrate that I actually want to do. Today, we have heard, and we will hear, about a number of inspirational women—the famous and the not so famous—all of whom have made their mark, not just in Wales but across the world. For my contribution I want to mention just a few.In sport, the shining example of Tanni Grey-Thompson, who probably did more than any other person to advance the cause of disabled sport in this country. During her career, she won a total of 16 Paralympic medals, including 11 golds, held over 30 world records and won the London marathon six times. She later became a TV presenter and is now an active member of the House of Lords.In politics, women had to fight for the right to vote. A leading Welsh suffragette was Margaret Haig Mackworth, who blew up a post box in Risca Road, Newport to show how strongly she felt about votes for women. The general election of 1929 was, of course, the first in which all women above the age of 21 were able to vote. Not only could women now vote, they could also stand for election to Parliament, and out of the three who stood in Wales, the one who succeeded in being elected, of course, was Megan Lloyd George, daughter of the former Prime Minister, David. She was elected as the Liberal MP for Anglesey, later seeing the light, of course, and becoming the Labour MP for Carmarthen. Of course, we shouldn’t forget Julia Gillard, a former Australian Prime Minister born in Barry, who came back to Wales to address the Assembly in 2015, the event being so popular that it had to be shifted from the Pierhead to the Senedd and was broadcast on senedd.tv for those who were unable to get tickets.In industry, not surprisingly, given the rich industrial heritage of Merthyr Tydfil, there were women pioneers in industry from the town. One was Lady Charlotte Guest, wife of John Josiah Guest, owner of the world’s largest ironworks in Dowlais, and Merthyr’s first MP. When he died in 1852, Charlotte took control of the business, and although she is best remembered for her philanthropic concerns for the workers in the area, she continued to run the works until she remarried in 1855. Another was Lucy Thomas, known as the mother of the coal industry, who took over the running of her husband’s business when he died in 1833, leaving her with an estate of under £1,000. He’d discovered a rich coal seam in Merthyr, and it became one of the most successful mines in Wales. By the time of her death in 1847, she’d increased the worth of that business to over £11,000. And more recently, there was the fashion designer Laura Ashley, born in a modest terraced house in Dowlais in Merthyr Tydfil, and who went on to become one of the world’s leading clothing and furnishing designers and manufacturers.There are so many other inspirational Welsh women I could talk about, but it’s not just about individuals. In the time that I’ve got left to me, I want to also pay tribute to women who have acted collectively in their trade unions, making a difference to the lives of so many. The record of women acting collectively is a proud one: from the match girls’ strike in 1888, which led to the banning of dangerous white phosphorus matches and improvements in their working conditions, to the general strike of 1926, when women first took to the streets to defend men’s right to a decent wage. In 1934, when the Government took action against the rising cost of paying dole and benefits to the unemployed—does that sound familiar—a hunger march left Tonypandy and among the hundreds of Welsh miners were a dozen women wearing rucksacks and red berets. They’d been coached in public speaking to be able to address meetings on their overnight stops on the way to Cardiff. Of course, during the miners’ strike of 1984, women protested alongside their husbands, fathers and brothers to oppose the closure of 28 south Wales pits. As well as protesting about the loss of jobs, they were fighting to protect their communities. Women joined the picket lines, they marched at rallies and they provided food parcels. Women Against Pit Closures politicised women like never before in these coal-mining communities, and one of them, Siân James, went on to become the Labour MP for Swansea East. Women in trade unions have relentlessly campaigned on issues that affect them disproportionately, pursuing equal pay claims, equal rights for part-time, fixed-term, agency and low-paid workers, and, as we debated last week, fighting the exploitation of the use of zero-hours contracts, which also affects women more than men, and of course campaigning for equality and affordable childcare, which this Government is seeking to address. Llywydd, I feel extremely privileged to have been elected to the Welsh Assembly, and I owe an immense debt of gratitude to those women who went before me and blazed a trail in politics and in the trade union movement, making it possible for me and other women like me to be here today. Our responsibility now is to pave the way for the next generation of women who will make their mark in Welsh life.

Michelle Brown AC: I welcome today’s debate proposing that the National Assembly celebrates International Women’s Day. I’m sure many Members and the wider public will reflect on the well-known women of the present day and throughout the history of Wales. However, I would like to take this opportunity to commend the contributions made by ordinary women in Wales—women who helped build this country, working in the home, farm, factory and so many other places. We will never know their names, but on their shoulders our country stands. Without the mothers of Wales teaching their children in their own mother tongue, the Welsh language would not have survived, nor would its folklore or poetry. UKIP therefore call on this place to acknowledge their invaluable contribution to our country, a contribution on a parallel to that of men. With regard to the amendments proposed by Plaid, yes, women are under-represented on the boards of non-governmental organisations, companies and governmental boards. However, artificially increasing numbers by imposing a quota might look good, but it would be ultimately meaningless without understanding and addressing why fewer women are board members in the first place. You can draw up all-women shortlists to your heart’s content, however, it is through talent and ability that women should obtain top positions within companies. [Interruption.] We should not support the elevation of women above men, but rather seek to compete on a level playing field, treating each gender with total equality.It is through debates such as this, and the awareness raised by activists in events such as International Women’s Day, that we progress further towards total equality in the workplace and beyond. Plaid are correct to regret the median pay and relatively lower earnings of women versus men in the workplace. This is a reflection of the occupations that women are still largely employed in. For instance, on average, women are far more likely to be in part-time work, on zero-hours or low-paid contracts as a consequence of childcare and other caring responsibilities. UKIP will not be voting in favour of amendment 4 as there is no causal link between healthy relationship lessons in schools and educational attainment, and it is educational attainment that is the most significant factor in the pay and conditions of female workers. To those who bemoan the slightly lower pay enjoyed by women in Wales and the UK, I’d say this: your ideals for perfect equality are laudable, but we should be proud that the UK is one of the best places on earth to be born and live as a woman. There are many challenges that women face in today’s society beyond the workplace—issues that, for many, are unpleasant to discuss or even acknowledge. Women, and indeed many girls of a young age, have been victims of cultural practices violating their bodies and their futures. As International Women’s Day approaches, I call on this Assembly and campaigners to confront the issue of female genital mutilation. As a society, we have a duty to care for those who have suffered as a consequence of this heinous act and to do everything to combat the motivations behind this crime. At the same time, we must speak out for millions of women throughout the world who do not share the same rights that we are fortunate to hold. In recent months, we have witnessed thousands of women protesting against the newly elected President of the United States. I ask them: where were the marches and protests for their sisters abroad, many of whom have suffered a fate worse than FGM for stepping outside cultural norms? We require a sense of perspective. Yes, we need to tackle sexism and inequality in everyday society, but more importantly we need to provide a beacon of hope for women who are deprived of their basic human rights by speaking out on issues that are shamefully still ongoing in the twenty-first century.So, let’s celebrate our achievements as women. Let us remember those women who have gone before, those who campaigned and secured our freedoms and liberties. But, let us not forget the millions of women who do not have a voice and ensure that, tomorrow, on International Women’s Day, we provide them with that voice. Thank you.

Julie Morgan AC: In my contribution today I want to talk about the implications for women of leaving the EU. I want to start off with European structural funds. European structural funds are worth £2 billion to Wales between 2014 and 2020. The Treasury has guaranteed that all projects started before the UK leaves the EU will be fully funded until their completion, but we don’t know what is going to happen after that. We don’t know what regional policy will be after we leave. Obviously, we are having discussions here in Wales to try to influence what that will be, but we don’t know. But, we do know that it will have a big impact on women.Gender equality has always been a core objective of the European Union. Since the UK joined in 1973, membership has helped ensure improvements in pay equality, protection from discrimination, childcare, parental leave and care for pregnant women and new mothers. Also, international co-operation across the European Union has helped tackle female genital mutilation, because we need collaborative working on issues such as female genital mutilation. As we know, it happens in Wales. We know it happens in Cardiff. A recent committee in Cardiff identified cases where female genital mutilation had taken place. So, it’s essential that we work collaboratively on this issue.There’s also international co-operation on human trafficking. We know that women are far more likely to be trafficked into the sex trade. In fact, the EU says that 30,146 people were registered as victims of human trafficking across the 28-nation EU in the three years to 2013; 80 per cent of the victims were women; 69 per cent of all those trafficked were victims of sexual exploitation; and more than 1,000 child victims were trafficked for sexual exploitation. So, we need to be in a situation where we can work collaboratively on those issues. When we do leave the EU, we have got to ensure that we still have those collaborative ways of working, because it is vital for women who are in these vulnerable situations that we do. Leaving the EU will mean the loss of targeted funding for gender equality. In 2012, 28 per cent of the EU’s aid budget included gender equality or women’s empowerment as a key objective. This is what has been written into all the EU’s work, all its policy—a recognition of the inequalities that there are. When we leave the EU, we’ve got to ensure that we do not lose all that good work that has been achieved. In addition, any economic downturn will hit women hardest. All the evidence has shown that when the going gets hard, it’s women who are hit hardest. That’s certainly what’s happened with the Tory cuts. A 2015 report from the LSE showed that 78.9 per cent of welfare cuts fell on women, especially single parents, and black and minority ethnic women are also disproportionately affected. [Interruption.]The Fawcett Society has called for a woman to be on the Brexit negotiating team, in view of the all-male make-up of the current trio, which is made up, of course, of David Davis, Liam Fox and Boris Johnson. I think we do need a woman there to try to negotiate. I mean, these negotiations are so important for women. Whatever happens post Brexit, we must ensure that the hard-won gains for women are not lost and that the cross-cutting themes that are embedded in the European structural funds, for example, are not lost.The Women and Equalities Select Committee in Westminster has made recommendations post Brexit, one of which is that there should be a clause on equality in the great reform Bill, and I think that that is a very sensible suggestion. They’ve also suggested that Parliament and the courts should declare whether new laws are compatible with equality principles. Again, I think that is a very important recommendation, because we are moving into a situation where we will have no guarantee that we will have equality written into legislation, into any future regional policy, into co-operation between countries. So, I think we’ve got to use all we can to do that, because there’s no doubt that the European Union, and our membership of the European Union, has been a huge advantage to women and has helped us make great steps forward.

Joyce Watson AC: We are, here in the Welsh Assembly, a young institution, but this Assembly has indeed got a very proud record of honouring and enacting the principles and the aims of International Women’s Day, as do successive Welsh Labour-led Governments. Since devolution, we’ve been amongst the most gender-balanced legislatures in the world—the first to elect an equal number of able women and able men. The consequences of that representation in terms of policy and legislation cannot and must never be overlooked.One of those landmark policies is the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015. It’s the first legislation of its kind in the UK and it is the only law in Europe to have a specific focus on violence against women. That, we have heard, has been contested in this Assembly, and I will stand, as my colleagues will, steadfast behind that. I’m going to tell you a story that I heard on Saturday. It isn’t a nice story, and it’s a story about a young female who found herself in jail—she has now been released on probation. Without telling me who that individual was, I was told about her story. Her story is one of drug addiction that started at the age of nine, when she took her mother’s Valium tablets. She took her mother’s Valium tablets because she couldn’t face the day. Her mother locked her and her brother in the coalhouse, because that was the only way that she could keep those two safe from an abusive father and husband. Those two children sat in that coalhouse, and whilst they could hear their mother screaming they knew she was alive—they were absolutely terrified when it was silent.She went on through her life, as a consequence of that abuse and the addiction that she had gained very early on to Valium, to become a drug addict and to find herself within the prison system. So, that is why—it is stories like that, and they don’t make good listening. But these are individuals—we cannot begin to imagine that fear that was going through the mother and her children’s lives. That is why we support a gender-based approach to domestic abuse, and we do it quite proudly.I wanted to tell that story, because those stories are never told. People see somebody within the prison system, they see somebody who has an addiction, but they never ever stop to think—they never ask why. So, I did that last weekend, and I wanted to share that with you today, because it is essential that, when women are elected to office, they do the right thing by the women who will never be elected to office. And doing the right thing means sometimes telling the stories that people don’t want to hear, and bringing through legislation that will actually hope that those children will not become victims later on in life.The other area that I want to focus on is women’s economic activity, and we’ve heard today grand statements about that from the other benches. The 2016 autumn statement told us that 86 per cent of the net gains to the Treasury through tax and benefit measures came from women, and that was up by 5 per cent from 2015. But the UK Government has continued to evade its duties under the 2016 equalities Act, and refused to carry out a gender assessment, unlike the Welsh Government. If they did that, and bearing in mind that the budget falls on International Women’s Day this year, they might find that the cuts that they have made to the public sector have hit women specifically by 80 per cent—80 per cent of all those cuts have hit women, and I think it’s time that they actually did carry out an equality impact assessment on what they’re doing.

Suzy Davies AC: Different tack here: March is Women’s History Month. And what is the point of Women’s History Month? Well, we have 50 per cent of the population, but only occupy 0.5 per cent of recorded history. And that matters if generation after generation after generation has been exposed to that imbalance as a truth about values. I know that some Members here in the Chamber like to hark back to the twentieth century to make their political points, as if nothing has happened in the meantime, but to explain the problem of 0.5 per cent for half the population, and its effects on our cultural DNA, Dr Bettany Hughes thinks that we need to start right back with prehistory, where the opposite was true. If you look at all the figurines made between 40,000 BC until around 5,000 BC, a period that really sees the flourishing of the modern mind, at that time about 90 per cent of all those figurines were of women. So, women are very present in the archaeological record, but then start to disappear once prehistory turns into history. At the birth of civilised society, you have very highly productive and sophisticated settlements, with women having great status—they were high priestesses, they had property rights, they owned land, they wrote poetry. But these new civilisations wanted to expand, and that needed muscle power. At that point, society becomes more militarised, and the balance of power moved. It was then that we saw the quantum shift in the story of the world, and we start to find powerful warrior gods appearing in the archaeology, as well as in the epic tales, representing a gear change in how we are told the story of humanity.Growth through military means—muscle mattered, and it still matters. This long-lived status quo has become the base note of society. Whereas previously a measure of achievement might have been the physical survival and nurture of a community, and quality of life, it is even now expansion and success. Women’s roles continued to diminish, and women’s strengths lost their kudos. So, why do we know about some women but not others? Well, if you think of some of the women in history that we’ve all heard of—the likes of Cleopatra and Helen of Troy—one of the reasons their stories have lasted so long is that they are portrayed as highly sexualised. They’re exciting, but the danger of their influence has also become a warped morality tale. We remember them as creatures who draw men towards their beds and towards their death, or, in Judeo-Christian culture, to their fall from grace. Often women aren’t allowed to be individual human characters in history—they have to be stereotypes.Older literature has been complicit with that as well. Cleopatra was a poet and a philosopher. She was incredibly good at maths, and she wasn’t particularly good looking. But, when we think of her, we think of the big-breasted seductress, bathing in milk, with this really weird relationship with asps. Often, even when women have made their mark and they are remembered by history, we’re offered a fantasy version of their lives. Now, of course, even if we don’t believe this stuff any more, and we say out loud that men and women are equal, how are we still so affected by it? How is it still possible for any Member of the European Parliament—as one did last week—to declare, unashamedly, that women should be paid less because we are smaller, weaker and less intelligent? How can it be possible to say that these days? Now, Dr Hughes says that there’s been a problem here for at least 3,500 years, so, it’s no surprise that we have some catching up to do, because we’re actually overcoming a hardwired collective false memory.Physically, the stories of women have been written out of history rather than written in, but times are changing and I think we’re more interested now in the story of what it means to be human, as opposed to being a man or a woman. It’s an issue that has very, very deep roots and I would really like us to be sure that we collectively are known as the generation that opened rather than closed minds and who opened up these stories, put them back on the page and started recalibrating that collective memory, because, yes, of course, women have impacted on history. It’s just that we need to know about it and it’s difficult to celebrate or recognise our achievements as women, as the motion says, if we don’t know about them. So, I thank Members who have contributed today for actually giving some examples. We need to actively look back for women’s stories and put them back into the historical narrative, globally, nationally, and locally. Of course, it’s down in no small part to the—. It’s part of the job of historians to fill the gaps in history, which is why I think we should resist any attempt to downplay the role of history in the new Wales curriculum, but ask to reconsider what it’s for. Let’s get it to do the right thing, Joyce. Let it be bold—I think somebody else mentioned that we need to be bold—in recalibrating that collective memory so that women’s strengths are valued across time and not just in the last 100 years. The Nazis may have failed to conquer Europe, but they’ve done a damn good job of dominating our history curriculum, and we are still talking about muscle and missing half our history a century after the first International Women’s Day. Thank you.

Rhianon Passmore AC: I am actually proud to rise in this Government debate to mark International Women’s Day. Today, I gathered on the Senedd steps with my fellow female Labour Assembly Members and I was very proud to shine a light on Welsh women who have made an impact in public life across Wales. You may have heard of Benjamin Hall, who was a man from Islwyn, my constituency, who Big Ben was named after. But, today, I am not going to talk about a husband; I’m going to talk about the wife, and she is not defined by him. This is a lady called Augusta. She was a remarkable nineteenth-century Welsh woman who played a cultural role in the adoption of the now familiar Welsh national costume as our national dress, something that every single one of us as politicians are familiar with. Two centuries later, on St David’s Day last week, girls wore this costume with pride, alongside the rugby shirts, and alongside the variety of costumes all over Wales. This church and the educational mandate that Augusta endowed in Abercarn in Islwyn is known locally as the ‘Welsh church’ and I’m proud to say that I got married in it. It still proudly stands on the sides of the valley and it features on the badge of Ysgol Gymraeg Cwm Gwyddon. Over the years, thousands of pupils have learnt about the historic and cultural connection to Augusta Hall. It is right that International Women’s Day encourages us to find role models like Augusta in all of our communities as we continue to strive for true gender equality in all areas of life. Today, Welsh Labour has led the way in securing gender balance in the National Assembly for Wales. It is easy to say that. In the current Assembly we in Welsh Labour, again, have a gender balanced group, with 15 women Members out of 29. This is a result of policy and will, and not namby-pamby wishful thinking. As a result of Welsh Labour action, the National Assembly remains significantly more representative of the population than the UK Parliament. And it is why we have the ground-breaking violence against women legislation—the first in the UK—and it is legislation we should all be rightfully proud of, every single one of us across this Chamber. I am proud to be the second female Welsh Labour Assembly Member for Islwyn. As a child, I was passionate about politics and actively looked for opportunities, unashamedly, to serve in public life. As a female, I know I was faced with added obstacles in achieving this goal. But, today, the landscape of gender equality in Wales has greatly improved. But gender equality has still not been obtained. The gender pay gap, the Women Against State Pension Inequality pensions debacle, demonstrate this. I’m delighted that increasing the number of women in positions of power and influence is a priority for this Welsh Labour Government, and this Welsh Government believes that there are still far too few women in prominent roles—unlike some in this Chamber—across public life. Women’s voices need to be heard and decision-making bodies, such as the Government and local authorities, must be representative of the communities that they serve. The Welsh Labour manifesto makes a commitment to seek to introduce better gender data for appointments to public bodies across Wales, ensuring that at least 40 per cent of those appointments are women. This is not to be ashamed of. In October 2015, the Welsh Government launched a call for evidence to increase the understanding of the challenges and barriers contributing to the under-representation of certain groups on public sector boards, and the measures to address this that have been successful in Wales and other countries. The Welsh Government is committed to using the findings to develop its responses to under-representation in public appointments. And what should concern us all is the continuing gender pay gap. Pay gaps are a complex and long-standing issue, and some of the levers of change rest with employers. The public sector equality duty requires public sector employers to address pay and employment differences across those protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010. And it is right that we consider the impact of the European movement in regard to where we are moving forward post Brexit, and that we do protect those qualities across Wales. Many women in employment in Wales still earn less than men, and this is because many traditional female career paths and women are more likely to work part-time than men, due to caring responsibilities. And finally, it is something that all of us in this Chamber and everyone watching need to devote ourselves to challenging. We cannot see any longer the twenty-first century roll on with a gender pay differential. It is a true stain on Welsh life that must end, and this Government will continue with that difficult journey until we achieve parity—parity of esteem, parity of pay, parity of equality and a true society of equals across Wales. Diolch.

And finally, Jayne Bryant.

Jayne Bryant AC: Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. It’s an honour to speak in this debate today. Indeed, there are many of my colleagues here who have inspired me, and it’s a privilege to join them and others in this Chamber. I know that I stand on the shoulders of others. Many women who have gone before us made sacrifices and fought battles so that women can have the vote, go to university, work and choose how to live their lives. We’ve come a long way from the suffragettes such as Margaret Mackworth, Lady Rhondda, but there is much more to do. As a new Member, this is really the first opportunity that I’ve had in the Chamber to pay tribute to my predecessor as the Member for Newport West, Dame Rosemary Butler. Rosemary certainly has been an inspiration to me and many other women in Newport and throughout Wales. As Llywydd, she used her position to encourage and support women in public life. She understood that a diverse workforce is better for everyone. It’s important to ensure that women in senior positions don’t pull the ladder up, but hold out a hand to other women. Rosemary’s Women in Public Life campaign certainly made a difference. In Newport, she organised International Women’s Day events over many years, bringing together women from all walks of life to meet, learn from each other and have fun, always keen to support and encourage women to try something new, give it a go and not be afraid of failure, something that I know she will continue to do. International Women’s Day is also about recognising the value of women in crucial roles, such as paid and unpaid carers. There’s a long way to go to solve the gender pay gap, and it’s shocking that, in 2017, gender can have an impact on how much you get paid. Indeed, the World Economic Forum estimated that the global gender pay gap won’t close until 2186. This is inexcusable. The UK is currently twentieth in the world behind Nicaragua, Burundi, Ireland, Slovenia and Germany. We can do much better. Equal rights is not just a fight for women. My grandfather, who was a blacksmith from Glyncorrwg, was proud to call himself a feminist. He died five years ago at the age of 89, and he wholeheartedly believed in equality and knew that it was something that men needed to fight for as well. And I know that the Cabinet Secretary believes that, and he’s a champion for equality. International Women’s Day is an opportunity for us to reflect and celebrate the fantastic works and achievements of women in our community. Since being elected, I’ve met women who are campaigners, leaders and who just get things done—formidable women, many of whom just get on with it and don’t realise the difference they’re making. This year’s theme is ‘Be bold for change’, and, only three months into 2017, we’ve already seen women taking to the streets across the world to protect peacefully against divisive politics. We can see from the hateful language on social media against women that the fight for equality is not over. We must face these challenges head on and test the advancements made. In many parts of the world, women won’t be celebrating. In fact, they might be fighting to survive the day. In countries such as Syria, Iraq and Nigeria, women face rape as a weapon of war. We hear how, in some countries, women and girls are being forcibly married, sexually abused and raped by their so-called husbands and sold to others. It’s also a chance to think of those refugees who have travelled hundreds of miles to find safety, many of them mothers, forced to carry their children from one danger zone to the next. Battles we thought had been won seem to be bending in the wind. It’s imperative that we all stand together, celebrate what we’ve achieved and take bold action for change.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children to reply to the debate—Carl Sargeant.

Carl Sargeant AC: Thank you, Deputy Llywydd, for the opportunity to respond to this debate. International Women’s Day has become a major occasion in the equality calendar and it’s good to see that it achieves such widespread, positive media and that it sparks so much debate on this issue. Shining a spotlight on inequality and presenting the stark evidence that exists to show how women are still being treated unfairly can only facilitate meaningful change. Can I turn to some of the contributions by Members in the Chamber today? First of all, I’d like to thank Hannah Blythyn for her thoughtful piece, a very local piece to her constituency. The people she mentioned—the Flint women’s choir, the RainbowBiz, Val from the poppy appeal, Vicky Perfect—the key custodian of Flint castle—then, indeed, Viv Williams in the Chamber today, from Names on Stones. Last but not least, Hannah, my mum, because she was also from Delyn, so I’d like to make that very clear. Other contributions in the Chamber today—Leanne Wood, again, spoke very openly about the celebration but also reflection, around the world, around gender equality and I’m grateful for her continued support. The only thing I would say is that this is not a fait accompli. Choices of change to challenge suffrage are in the hands of all of us, including the leaders within this Chamber and all Members, and I’m grateful for her contribution.Michelle Brown raised some interesting issues. I must say, there was only one part of the debate where I didn’t quite agree with—her contribution around healthy relationships. I don’t agree with that because there is an absolute link between healthy relationships and the well-being of an individual, and that’s something I’m very pleased to be working on with the education Minister in terms of that successful programme for the future.Can I turn to the amendments of today? We will be supporting amendment 1, and the Welsh Government is driving forward a range of actions, including diversity in public sector boards—not just women, but all under-represented groups—and we know we’re not there yet but progress is being made. Tomorrow, the EHRC will publish their latest ‘Who Runs Wales?’ report and it will highlight that some sectors—for example, the NHS—have made huge strides in getting more women into senior roles. Nevertheless, I do recognise there is still much more to do, in particular in local government. We’ll also be supporting amendments 2 and 3, in recognition that there is a very real gender pay gap in Wales, as there is in the rest of the UK. You’ll be aware that tomorrow is actually International Women’s Day; what some of you may not know is that today, 7 March, has been branded as Women’s Pay Day. It is the day that the average paid woman in the UK starts getting paid compared to the average man. Effectively, women are working for the first 66 days of the year for free. That cannot be right. Pay inequality is a complex issue and the days of jobs being advertised with different rates of pay for men and women are long gone, but the pay gap endures. Only by addressing the underlying causes of pay inequality can we ever hope to eliminate it. We are tackling the issues on a number of fronts, and, as I mentioned earlier, including tackling gender stereotyping, occupational segregation and the lack of affordable childcare.Llywydd, moving to amendment 4, we will be opposing amendment 4 today, which is about healthy relationships becoming compulsory in schools. I absolutely agree with the Plaid Member’s contribution in regard to healthy relationships in schools and it’s something that I’m working on with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, who announced that a healthy relationship expert panel has been set up to address needs and to support schools to provide good-quality, inclusive healthy relationships education. It would be wrong to pre-empt that work, but we will come back to the Chamber to discuss further with colleagues around the outcome of that. To come back to the focus of today’s debate, Llywydd, it is about celebrating women’s contribution to social, economic and political life. Our role, as a Government, is to ensure that women have the same opportunities as men to achieve their full potential. Just some of the millions of women and girls of Wales I’d like to say thank you to—thank you to people like Hannah Blythyn, Dawn Bowden, Jayne Bryant, Rebecca Evans, Lesley Griffiths, Vikki Howells, Jane Hutt, Julie James, Ann Jones, Eluned Morgan, Julie Morgan, Lynne Neagle, Rhianon Passmore, Jenny Rathbone, Joyce Watson, Sian Gwenllian, Bethan Jenkins, Elin Jones, Leanne Wood, Angela Burns, Suzy Davies, Janet Finch-Saunders, Michelle Brown, Caroline Jones and Kirsty Williams. Comrades, continue to be bold, and let’s build a better International Women’s Day. Equality should be at the forefront of every Government and everything that Government does and we should never lose sight of this. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 1 agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The proposal is to agree amendment 2. Does any Member object? No. Amendment 2—no? Okay. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 2 agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The proposal is to agree amendment 3. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, amendment 3 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 3 agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The proposal is to agree amendment 4. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. Right, okay, thank you. We’ll return to voting on that at voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

It has been agreed that voting time will take place now, and, unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I intend to proceed directly to voting time. Okay, thank you.

8. 7. Voting Time

We move to voting time, then, and the first vote is on the second supplementary budget and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 27, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

Motion agreed: For 27, Against 26, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on motion NDM6236.Click to see vote results

We now turn to a vote on the Estyn annual report and I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 26, no abstentions, 27 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is not agreed.

Amendment not agreed: For 26, Against 27, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on amendment 1 to motion NDM6246.Click to see vote results

We move to a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 26, no abstentions, 27 against. Therefore, the amendment is not agreed.

Amendment not agreed: For 26, Against 27, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on amendment 2 to motion NDM6246.Click to see vote results

We now move to a vote on amendment 3, in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. There were 53 for, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 3 is agreed.

Amendment agreed: For 53, Against 0, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on amendment 3 to motion NDM6246.Click to see vote results

I call for a vote on amendment 4, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 53, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 4 is agreed.

Amendment agreed: For 53, Against 0, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on amendment 4 to motion NDM6246.Click to see vote results

So, I call for a vote on the motion, as amended, in the name of Jane Hutt.

Motion NDM6246 as amended;To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:1. Notes the annual report for 2015-16 of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Education and Training in Wales.2. Notes that leadership is the most significant factor affecting school improvement and calls upon the Welsh Government to bring forward more detailed information on the establishment of the National Academy of Educational Leadership, including its finances, targets, and how leaders will be able to access its support.3. Regrets the relative poor performance of the pupil referral units inspected in 2015-16, of which none were identified with excellent practice and all four were placed in a statutory category of follow up, and calls on the Welsh Government to address weaknesses in provision, leadership and management as a matter of urgency.

Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 53, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, the motion is carried.

Motion NDM6246 as amended agreed: For 53, Against 0, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on motion NDM6246 as amended.Click to see vote results

We’ll move to a vote on amendment 4 on the International Women’s Day debate. I call for a vote on amendment 4, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 20, no abstentions, against the motion 33. Therefore, amendment 4 is not agreed.

Amendment not agreed: For 20, Against 33, Abstain 0.

Result of the vote on amendment 4 to motion NDM6247.Click to see vote results

So, I call for a vote on the motion as amended, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.

Motion NDM6247 as amended:To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:1. Celebrates International Women's Day 2017 and recognises the role, contribution and achievements of women in the economic, political, social and cultural life of Wales.2. Notes that women remain under-represented in leadership positions and regrets that only 4 per cent of the CEOs of the top 100 businesses in Wales and 31 per cent of board members of major WGSBs are women.3. Calls on the Welsh Government to commit to reaching the 40 per cent threshold of gender balance of women on WGSBs and to increase the number of women that are chairs and on advisory panels of WGSBs.4. Regrets that the median hourly pay gap between men and women in Wales in 2015 was 14.6 per cent.5. Regrets that 29 per cent of women working in Wales earned below the living wage, compared to 20.5 per cent of men, based on the hourly living wage of £8.25 as at April 2016.

Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 52, one abstention, none against. Therefore, the motion as amended is carried.

Motion NDM6247 as amended agreed: For 52, Against 0, Abstain 1.

Result of the vote on motion NDM6247 as amended.Click to see vote results

That brings today’s proceedings to a close. Thank you.

The meeting ended at 18:15.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Dawn Bowden: What discussions has the Welsh Government held regarding the impact of welfare reform on supporting housing in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: We have had inter-ministerial discussions, written communications with HM Treasury as well as external meetings with stakeholders with regard to the UK Government’s welfare benefit changes affecting supported accommodation.

Hefin David: Will the First Minister make a statement on endometriosis services in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: Raising awareness of endometriosis is important for women in Wales. We will be lighting the Senedd yellow to support World Endometriosis Day on 25 March. Cardiff and Vale University Health Board provides tertiary referral pelvic pain and endometriosis surgery and is one of five units in the UK that provide advance minimal access surgery training.

Bethan Sayed: Will the First Minister make a statement on inward investment into South Wales West?

Mark Drakeford: We recognise the importance of inward investment to the Welsh economy and are committed to attracting global businesses to Wales. For example, we recently welcomed the news that Chinese-owned Acerchem International has chosen to set up its European Headquarters in Swansea.

Gareth Bennett: What discussions has the Welsh Government had with housing associations in order to deliver more affordable homes for Wales?

Mark Drakeford: The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children and officials are engaging with housing associations about our 20,000 affordable homes target. Recognising the scale of this challenge, a housing pact has been signed with the WLGA and Community Housing Cymru. Housing associations and local authorities have committed to delivering 13,500 homes.

Caroline Jones: Will the First Minister outline the actions the Welsh Government is taking to support Swansea's bid for UK City of Culture in 2021?

Mark Drakeford: I welcome Swansea’s ambition to become the 2021 UK City of Culture. Ministers will meet with the authority once it has developed its proposals more fully, before the deadline for initial bids.  In the meantime, officials are assisting Swansea to identify all potential options for funding and supporting its bid.

Neil Hamilton: What steps has the Welsh Government taken to ensure those who are deaf or have hearing loss in Wales are able to continue to benefit from assistive technology and equipment?

Mark Drakeford: Sensory impairment is a core theme in assessing care and support needs. A new health and social services integrated framework for action for people who are deaf or are living with hearing loss is to be published shortly, building on our continued investment in assistive equipment and technology.

Rhun ap Iorwerth: Will the First Minister make a statement on phone signals on Anglesey?

Mark Drakeford: Mobile operators are committed to each providing 90 per cent geographical coverage across Wales, including Anglesey, providing reliable signal for voice communications by the end of 2017. We intend to publish a mobile action plan for improving mobile connectivity in Wales and to provide a road map to achieving it.